45 Colt in a 24 inch barrel 1873 Winchester.

[FoghornLeghorn]

I understand that the 1873 can't handle high pressure loads, and the 45 Colt must be loaded to standard velocities.

The shorter barreled 1873 would be better, but what about the 24 inch barrel?

Is that a handicap given the limitations of the 1873 action?

 

[T. O'Heir]

You'll get slightly higher velocities due to the longer barrel. After that it'd be about the bullet weight. Then it's the physics.
A 24" will be a bit less "handy" vs a 20". But you trade velocity for handy.
I really don't think a .45 Colt +P is necessary. The original BP load was with a 230-to-255-grain lead bullet at up to 1,050 ft/s. Nothing you shoot will know or care.

 

[44 AMP]

Is that a handicap given the limitations of the 1873 action?

I'm not entirely sure exactly what you are asking...

The "limitations" of the 1873 action are that you are limited to shooting rounds in the pressure range the rifle was originally designed for. If that is too limiting, you need a different rifle.

The longer barrel will add some velocity over the shorter one. How much, exactly, I can't say, but not as much of a gain in .45 Colt as the same 4" difference in barrel length would get you with a magnum round burning buckets of slow powder.

It is entirely a personal choice if the longer barrel rifle is worth the difference in handling over the shorter one. It's not just 4" more barrel (and magazine tube?) length, its also a difference in weight and balance.

To one person, this matters, to another, not so much...

 

[Pathfinder45]

Foghorn, do you already own the rifle, or just considering it?
If you already have it, forget about, "standard velocity", and start thinking more about pressure and propellant burn rates.....

 

[Pathfinder45]

.....about pressure and propellant burn rates.....
With select bullets and powders, that rifle can be as powerful as a 44 magnum revolver while remaining within allowable pressure.

 

[mehavey]

With select bullets and powders, that rifle can be as powerful as
a 44 magnum revolver while remaining within allowable pressure.

Not in an 1873 . . . .

 

[Pathfinder45]

I think you might be surprised by what a 24" barrel can do with IMR-4227 at the maximum standard pressure that would be appropriate for an 1873 Winchester or Colt Single Action revolver. IMR-4227 will likely gain nearly 400 fps in the 24" rifle versus the revolver. Of course, you want to stay within the pressure limits of the gun. It's just that IMR-4227 keeps pressure over a longer duration than faster powders. It is also more flexible than some of the other powders in that approximate burn rate, meaning it doesn't have to be loaded to as high a pressure to work well. In this regard, I am thinking of W-296 or H-110 as being unsuitable and possibly unsafe to load to the pressure limitation of an 1873 Winchester; being unstable and erratic at such low pressure, they are only suitable for true magnum pressures. But IMR-4227 doesn't suffer from that problem; it down-loads nicely. I'm not saying you can match some of that hot Buffalo Bore 44 magnum ammo by any means. But you are going to gain a substantial velocity increase by switching from a faster powder to a slower powder when loaded to the same pressure in that longer barrel.
Yeah, don't blow your gun up; be careful! But that 1873 Winchester is nothing to scoff at either. Also, handloading is not for everyone. It's inherently risky, but I've heard of bad factory ammo too.

 

[Scorch]

With select bullets and powders, that rifle can be as powerful as
a 44 magnum revolver while remaining within allowable pressure.
Not in an 1873 . . . .

Oh, absolutely in an 1873. He said "magnum revolver". An 1873 with standard pressure 45 Colt rounds can launch a 255 gr lead bullet at 1,500 fps. Not magnum RIFLE power, but definitely magnum REVOLVER power.

 

[jmr40]

will likely gain nearly 400 fps in the 24" rifle versus the revolver.

Maybe 400 fps over a revolver, but probably less than 100 fps over the 20" rifle barrel. And there is no guarantee that a specific 24" barrel will shoot faster than another gun with a 20" barrel.

If you start with a long barrel and a known velocity it will get somewhat slower as the barrel is cut shorter. But when you compare different guns even with equal barrel lengths differences of 50-75 fps is very common and over 100 fps isn't unusual.

It would be very much possible for rifle "A" with a 20" barrel to shoot a bit faster than rifle "B" with a 24" barrel. It is also possible that rifle "B" might be 100-150 fps faster than rifle "A". But that is going to have more to do with the tolerances of the 2 rifles barrels and chambers than the barrel length.

With a 45 Colt I'd be perfectly happy with the performance I'd get from a 20" barrel. Even a 16" barrel. But if you find you like the looks, balance and weight of the longer 24" barrel then that is the way you should go. I do think the looks of the longer barrel is more traditional.

 

[mehavey]

ALCON:
See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6858246&postcount=41

 

[deadcoyote]

I haven’t used levers longer than 20” and only with .44 magnum but some pistol calibers in carbines actually seem to run out of oomph and you end up with a barre length where the projectile is going slower that with a shorter barrel. I’d imagine a 24” .45 coke would certainly be a lot faster than a revolver but the 24 may slow it down. Check ballistics by the inch website where they test these things out.

 

[Pathfinder45]

Once again, it all depends on the powder....

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

I haven’t used levers longer than 20” .............some pistol calibers in carbines actually seem to run out of oomph and you end up with a barre length where the projectile is going slower that with a shorter barrel.

It's a moot point since I opted to go with a Miroku 1873 in 45 Colt with 16 inch barrel. I've researched the load data quite a bit and mostly am constrained by the 14,000 psi max pressure limitation.

I've picked up two pounds of VihtaVuori N330 since that seems to be the cleanest burning powder of what's on my shelf. Hodgdon #5, W231, Titegroup and Unique are the other possibilities for the gun/caliber/action that I own.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the overall experiment/experience.

The gun:

 

[stagpanther]

That's a beauty!

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

That's a beauty!

Thanks.

 

[Pathfinder45]

Pretty rifle. Is the wood Maple? It looks very blonde. If the stock is glossier than you prefer, you can easily take it down to a nice satin finish just by a little light rubbing with very fine steel wool. And by all means, find some IMR-4227. Maybe even real black powder.

 

[Scorch]

I don't know what it is. I like the look of maplle, but on an old Winchester lever gun it just looks wrong. Pretty, but out of place.

 

[stagpanther]

Isn't this made the same place that Browning BLR's are? It too has an exquisite stock--so much so I'm afraid to actually shoot it. I'd be proud to have a handsome and handy lever like this in my collection. The only disadvantage to the 16" barrel IMO is the shorter sight radius, which makes the already difficult to use leaf buckhorn even harder to use well IMO, so I'd lose it for something like a Williamson set-up.