45 ACP REVOLVER Loading advice.

444

New member
I own a S&W Model 25 that I use for paper target shooting at 25 yards. Has anyone worked up an especially accurate load for something like this ? Bullseye/accuracy ?

I have no interest in defensive loads, hunting loads, terminal performance. ........just accuracy on paper

I have been loading 200 grain semi waddcutters with fairly light charges. But I am getting ready to load a new batch and wanted to see if anybody had any insight.

Also has anyone determined if there is any effect on accuracy between using 45 ACP cases with moon clips vs. 45 auto rim cases ?
 
FWIW: I am not competing. I just shoot indoors, for most of the year at my local club. We shoot paper targets, again, indoors: so "power" means nothing.

At one time, bullseye type pistol shooting was THE shooting sport in the US. I don't know much about it but I am pretty sure some of it was done with centerfire handguns and I am fairly certain that the .45 ACP was a popular cartridge for that purpose. I figured that there must have been a load that became more or less standard with that crowd and I could learn something from their experience. . Or maybe someone on here messed around with working up a really accurate 45 ACP load.
 
FWIW: I am not competing. I just shoot indoors, for most of the year at my local club. We shoot paper targets, again, indoors: so "power" means nothing.

At one time, bullseye type pistol shooting was THE shooting sport in the US. I don't know much about it but I am pretty sure some of it was done with centerfire handguns and I am fairly certain that the .45 ACP was a popular cartridge for that purpose. I figured that there must have been a load that became more or less standard with that crowd and I could learn something from their experience. . Or maybe someone on here messed around with working up a really accurate 45 ACP load.



I have been shooting Bullseye pistol and using the great H&G 68 type of 200LSWC. I have also been using Bullseye. My 50 yard load is 4.0 grains Bullseye. This is an old staple of Bullseye shooters and superbly accurate. The stock spring for a Les Baer Wadcutter is 13 pounds.

Last year I went and velocity tested my target loads. I wanted less recoil for the timed fire and rapid fire sequences at 25 yards and later in the year started using a 200 LSWC load with 3.5 grains for the timed fire and rapid fire stages. This worked fine from June through Oct, with no failures to function. My 200 LSWC 4.0 grain load is my 50 yard load and is very accurate. Well early in this year I participated in a February Bullseye match and the ammunition was in the vehicle the night previous and temperatures had reached the lower 30’s ºF. I was surprised to find that my 3.5 grain Bullseye load would not function the slide, I had stovepipes and failures to eject. A load that functioned fine in 80’s- 90’s ºF was not working in 40 ºF ! My 4.0 grain Bullseye load functioned the pistol each shot and that is what I used for the remainder of the match.

I also tested plated bullets. I purchased H&G 68 type plated bullets from Xtreme Bullets. I want to reduce the amount of lead being blown out of my barrel. I have heard that for plated bullets you just use the same data as for cast. This seems to be true for velocity, but at the lower end of pressure and recoil, where I am operating, while the velocities were close, function was not. Ejection and lockback were not reliable with a load of 200 Xtreme plated bullet and 3.7 grains Bulleye. This even though the cartridges were oiled. However, a test load of 4.0 grains Bullseye with the Xtreme plated bullet functioned, ejected and lockbacked for my test rounds.


Code:
[SIZE="3"]

[B]M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter [/B]			
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Brass mixed cases 
23-Mar-16	T = 69 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
					
Ave Vel =664.9	 	 		
Std Dev =16.18	 	 		 
ES =	51.71	 	 		 
High = 686.1	 			 
Low =	634.3	 			 
N =	8	 			 
					
early stove pipes, would not latch slide			
new 13 pound spring				
					
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 
8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
					
Ave Vel =660.6		 		
Std Dev =16.37	 		 
ES =	60.28		 		 
High = 695.6				 
Low =	635.3			 
N =	22				 
					
functioned every round,  light recoil, accurate			
old 13 pound spring					
					
					
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 
8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =714.4		 		
Std Dev =17.17		 		 
ES =	77.2		 		 
High = 755.1				 
Low =	677.9				 
N =	30				 
					
 accurate					
					
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6/20/2005 WLP Brass mixed cases 
23-Mar-16	T = 69 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =723.3		 		
Std Dev =9.48		 		 
ES =	28.65		 		 
High = 741.6				 
Low =	712.9				 
N =	10				 
					
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 
8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =742.9		 		
Std Dev =9.89		 		 
ES =	33.19		 		 
High = 760.6				 
Low =	727.5				 
N =	20				 
					
 accurate					
					
					
					
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 3.7 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases 
23-Mar-16	T = 72 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =651.7		 		
Std Dev =11.66		 		 
ES =	40.03		 		 
High = 676.9				 
Low =	636.9				 
N =	14				 
					
all ejected, slide failed to lock back once			
					
					
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases 
23-Mar-16	T = 72 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	
oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =686.8		 		
Std Dev =26.32		 		 
ES =	91.37		 		 
High = 730.4				 
Low =	639.1				 
N =	14				 
					
accurate, functioned and slide locked back	[/SIZE]



If you want to shoot a 230 bullet, the hardball load was 5.0 grs Bullseye with a 230 FMJ, and I use 4.5 grains Bullseye with a 230 LRN.
 
What HE ^^^ said. I think 3.5 grains bullseye was carved on a stone tablet some where. I shot it for both 25 and 50 yards. 6 clicks up for 50 yards. I used a Lyman 452460 which is similar to the H&G #68. I cast and shot centerfire bullseye for over 20 years.

Since you are using a revolver, you may find 675 fps is accurate and load for that target speed instead of using the load for a semi automatic.

David
 
My go to load for a 16 pound spring is 4.5 gr of bullseye under a 200 GR SWC at 1.225"

Like Slamfire posted above, my accuracy load is 3.5- 3.6 gr of bullseye under the same 200 gr SWC with a 13 pound spring.

I would expect that you could do well with these loads in a revolver.
 
I shoot an M25 in IDPA where rapid reloading counts, so I necessarily use roundnose bullets, moon clips, and loads which make the required power factor.
You don't.
I used to have the NRA books on handloading and there was an old article about the greats of bullseye shooting and the loads they used. When shooting bigbore (.45) with a revolver, they mostly used Auto Rim brass to eliminate the variable of clip thickness and bounce. Most used 185 - 205 gr SWCs with light loads of Bullseye or other fast powder.
 
444,
From my own experience, Bullseye competitors don't seem to use .45acp in much of anything other than 1911s.
Revolver folks seem to mostly favor .38s.
There's probably more .45acp revolver enthusiasts at the action pistol games than for Bullseye.
And their load recommendations might not help you much.
For your particular needs, you will probably have to figure things out the old fashioned way - on your own, load by load.
Always best, anyway, and part of the fun.
 
The NRA and ICORE have revolver matches. You just have to go looking for them.

Regarding loads, most handgun barrels, including on the 25-2's are too short to benefit from charge tuning in the same way a rifle does. So you can shoot any of the suggested charges as long as they are consistent.

Your revolver, like any revolver, will shoot better if all the chambers in the cylinder have the same throat diameters. It's common for them not to, and reaming them uniform is a standard revolver accuracy tuning step.

Your revolver will shoot more accurately if the cylinder latch (aka, bolt) timing is perfect, meaning the cylinder stops and latch engages and stops the cylinder with it perfectly lined up with the back of the barrel. Correcting timing is another revolver smith standard accuracy work component.

Your revolver will shoot more accurately if the bore is smooth and there is no constriction where it screws into the frame. It will then lead less. A constriction can be lapped out, but if the bore is smooth, even with a constriction, it will shoot softer bullets well if you give them enough pressure to bump up after passing through the constriction. So the very lightest loads aren't always best.​

I always had better luck with 3.8 grains of Bullseye than with 3.5 shooting cast bullets in the revolver. Maybe it's the barrel/cylinder gap. With commercial 185 grain JSWC's, 4.2 grains of Bullseye mimic's commercial match ammunition. But I don't find the 185's shoot as well as the 200's. I keep the powder charge at 4.2 for the 200's to get best accuracy, but it's hard to tell from 4.0 grains.

Use a roll crimp in the revolver. The case mouths won't last as long, but the more consistent start pressure does show up as improved accuracy.

A full moon clip should theoretically subject the cartridges to more identical hold, round-to round, but I can't tell any difference in grouping. Handling performance is another matter. At the range, a full moon clip is quicker to reload, for the obvious reason. It also makes it easier to pre-load just 5 rounds per clip, as is standard for bull's-eye targets, whereas, with half moons you have to find a three-round and a two-round clip to get ready for the next turn of the target. The downside is that all the full moon clips I've tried have been harder to load because a half moon can splay a little more. I expect that's why half moon clips were invented in the first place; easier on fingers when you don't have a loading tool. Perhaps today's full moon clips are better, but I haven't bought any clips in over 25 years, so I don't really know.
 
The 45 ACP 200 grain SWC is a very versatile and forgiving load. Any recommended starting charge of one of the popular fast burning powder is going to get you pretty close to where you want to be.

The nice thing about the revolver is there is no need to worry about cycling the slide.

Any observed differences between Auto-rim and ACP loads is going to be on a case by cases basis. If someone told me "auto-rim shoots better", I'd think to myself that's great, but it does not mean anything for me or my gun. Using auto-rim brass will let you experiment with different bullets styles and crimps since there no chance the rounds will end up in a semi-auto pistol.
 
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I just ordered a roll crimp die.

That never occurred to me before.

I agree about the auto rim brass. If nothing else it allows you to make specific revolver loads and not getting them mixed up.
 
Unclenick
Use a roll crimp in the revolver. .

I was seeing how much power I could get out of an S&W 25-2 and the recoil was yanking the bullets out in other chambers.

I looked around for a roll crimp. I could not see one for sale on line. I was either going to make one with a boring bar in 7/8-14 threaded rod or grind off the bottom of a 45LC seating die.

I think I just wound up shooting single shot.

The answer to my quest was with LIL'GUN 300 gr Cast, 45 auto rim brass, and 1.555" OAL.
 
In my Model 25 I found that 5 grains to 231 with a Saeco 200 grain SWC bullet and CCI primers shot as well as I could hold. I no longer remember the "starting load" I think maybe 4.3 grains, but got a lot of unburned powder in the chambers, which made loading a real pain. I'll continue to experiment until I find the "right" load.

I like the auto rim brass because, while it was fun at first, unloading and loading clips becomes tedious after awhile.
 
Yeah, I am with you on loading and unloading moon clips. It isn't terrible, but it is an added step that really provides no benefit to me; at this time.

I just shoot my Model 25 on a range and it's no big deal for me to load this revolver just like I do every other revolver I own. I own two .45 ACP revolvers and I started out with moon clips. I finally decided to buy the auto rim cases and never looked back. My shooting buddy who owns a 625 bought a couple thousand auto rim cases at the same time as I did and he has never loaded any of them. I guess he enjoys using moon clips.


A couple posts mentioned old standby loads used by bullseye shooters and this is basically what I was looking for. I know that various loads have become standards through long trial and error and in the past, when I tried them they turned out to be everything they were cracked up to be; so I posted to see if such a load existed in the .45 ACP and I guess it does.
 
45AutoRim/ACP revolvers are probably the most fun for me. Fun to reload, fun to plink with and best of all I don't have to chase any brass.
In 2014 I wrote about my love for the 45Autorim and that passion still exist today. As a matter of fact you guys motivated me to go and load some :)
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=4415

DSC00709.jpg

DSCN6178.jpg

DSCN0327.jpg
 
In my Model 25 I found that 5 grains to 231
Yep... +- 0.2 gr works well and will give me 1-1/2" at 25 yds from rest, iron sights and 70 yo eyes. I've seen no difference accuracy wise between Auto-Rim cases and ACP. Bullseye is every bit as good, but doesn't meter as well through my Dillon measures.

Revolver Guy Very nice target and a superb article...thanx for posting the link...we think alike regarding the venerable Smith big-bore target gun!

Rod
 
I have a 625 JM, I don't shoot bullseye with it but it is pretty accurate with 4.3 WST, 200 gr RN cast. It will stay on the head of an IDPA target at 25 yds, one hand double action.
 
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