I am starting to reload my 45 acp rounds but need some advice on primers. I am using 230 grain Hornady xtp, powder is hodgdon at 5.6 gr for the charge. I do have primers but they are cci 350 larger pistol magnum. Was wondering if I can use these primers with the load out or if I have to reduce the powder. It will be shot out of a high standard 1911.
45 acp reloading
- Thread starter Tuffypwn
- Start date
bedbugbilly
New member
You don't say if you are new to reloading or not - but if you are - get yourself a good loading manual and study it - then read it again.
My next question would be . . . if you have reloaded already - and you state your powder charge - why are you changing primers? What were you using before? And . . since you state you powder charge, I am assuming that you arrived at it by the standard method of "working up a load"? i.e. starting near minimum charge and working you way up until your load is accurate out of you handgun and it cycles with your load??
If so . . then if you only have access to magnum primers, then why aren't you working your load up and developing it with the magnum primer? 45aco works just fine with standard primers.
I don't mean to be critical and that is not my intent. It just sounds like you need to spend some time studying and getting to know reloading and reloading manuals better. Everyone has to learn - especially when new to something. And again, if you are an experienced reloader - then have at it. But switching primers from what manuals call for is not the safest way to proceed and guessing on powder loads is only going to get a person in trouble. "Start low and work up for the powder you are using.
Be safe.
My next question would be . . . if you have reloaded already - and you state your powder charge - why are you changing primers? What were you using before? And . . since you state you powder charge, I am assuming that you arrived at it by the standard method of "working up a load"? i.e. starting near minimum charge and working you way up until your load is accurate out of you handgun and it cycles with your load??
If so . . then if you only have access to magnum primers, then why aren't you working your load up and developing it with the magnum primer? 45aco works just fine with standard primers.
I don't mean to be critical and that is not my intent. It just sounds like you need to spend some time studying and getting to know reloading and reloading manuals better. Everyone has to learn - especially when new to something. And again, if you are an experienced reloader - then have at it. But switching primers from what manuals call for is not the safest way to proceed and guessing on powder loads is only going to get a person in trouble. "Start low and work up for the powder you are using.
Be safe.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
5.6 grains of HP-38 with a 230-grain projectile is a lot of powder. Hodgdon lists 4.3 grains as the starting load and 5.3 grains as the maximum. So you're .3 grains over the max already ... and then you want to use magnum primers?
Probably not a great idea.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
Probably not a great idea.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
A standard large pistol primer is all you need. Note also that quite a bit of new .45 ACP has gone NT (Non Toxic) and quite a bit of .45 ACP brass uses a small pistol primer. Regardless all you need for HP 38 is a standard primer. The following is from our friends at Hodgdon:
START LOAD DATA
4.2 grains 751 FPS 13,800 CUP
MAXIMUM LOAD
5.3 grains 832 FPS 16,800 CUP
While the above data is for a 230 grain FMJ and you have a XTP bullet the data should be close. Can you use a magnum primer? Yes, but I would be starting at the bottom (Start Load Data) if I did that.
Ron
START LOAD DATA
4.2 grains 751 FPS 13,800 CUP
MAXIMUM LOAD
5.3 grains 832 FPS 16,800 CUP
While the above data is for a 230 grain FMJ and you have a XTP bullet the data should be close. Can you use a magnum primer? Yes, but I would be starting at the bottom (Start Load Data) if I did that.
Ron
Welcome to TFL Tuffypwn.
Let's kind of back up and start at the beginning.
How much loading experience do you have?
Have you done a load work up to get to this 5.6 grain level with the Hornady 230 XTP's?
What is your intended application for this ammo?
What firearm is going to shoot these; specifically, the barrel length?
Do you have other propellants besides HP-38?
Do you have other primers besides CCI 350's?
The short answer is, you can use the 350 primers, but it needs to be approached with the proper cautions. And 5.6 is pretty strong, even with standard primers (Hornady max is 5.7). It would be good to just get a more overarching "feel" for your situation and why you are where you are with this.
Let's kind of back up and start at the beginning.
How much loading experience do you have?
Have you done a load work up to get to this 5.6 grain level with the Hornady 230 XTP's?
What is your intended application for this ammo?
What firearm is going to shoot these; specifically, the barrel length?
Do you have other propellants besides HP-38?
Do you have other primers besides CCI 350's?
The short answer is, you can use the 350 primers, but it needs to be approached with the proper cautions. And 5.6 is pretty strong, even with standard primers (Hornady max is 5.7). It would be good to just get a more overarching "feel" for your situation and why you are where you are with this.
hp38/w231 is a ball powder, which lends itself to mag primers. i use this combo, but published data is hard to find. h335 is also a ball powder, speer rcommends mag primers, others recommend standard primers (223 small rifle).
im not saying anyone is wrong, just pointing out some reloading descrepamcies that exist.
im not saying anyone is wrong, just pointing out some reloading descrepamcies that exist.
Really? Cuz I have some right here, and I'm looking at a bunch of flat round wafer-like discs. Either way, I don't know of any published data for W231/HP-38 that calls for magnum primers. Further, I have never run into any ignition inconsistencies when using W231/HP-38 with standard primers. And I have loaded a whole bunch of ammo with it - tens of thousands of rounds. Countless different loadings, calibers, bullet weights, etc.
I'm not saying not to use magnum primers. I'm just saying that there is no requirement for it in any way that I know of.
HP-38 is a great powder. I have been loading it a very long time and if you go back to 1987, you're in book so you might have an old book. 5.0 to 5.5 gr HP38/W231 loads have been accepted standard for a long time but it is not JUST the lawyers. Powders change. Work up. I'm rolling back to .45 in the next few months and what I have loaded and shoot is out of book at 5.5. I will start over at 5.0, 5.2, 5.3, maybe 5.5. I'll crono them, check the brass, compare them to rounds loaded in 92 and then decide what I'll be shooting for the next 5-8 years. The testing will be done March 24th, weather permitting. I'll report that night if you can wait. I have an entire day at the range planned with news loads in several calibers. It will be a hoot.
I have seen data that would suggest magnum powders are more marketing than magic. Still, I would not do it unless I had to. I have a .41 Mag. I'll trade you even-up for std if you are anywhere near SW Ohio. There are a lot of nanny's but in this case, if you will not step the powder back, don't use the mags. I suggest you stay in the modern book, I will load no more than a magazine or two at the old load of 5.5 until I have a chance to check it out.
I have seen data that would suggest magnum powders are more marketing than magic. Still, I would not do it unless I had to. I have a .41 Mag. I'll trade you even-up for std if you are anywhere near SW Ohio. There are a lot of nanny's but in this case, if you will not step the powder back, don't use the mags. I suggest you stay in the modern book, I will load no more than a magazine or two at the old load of 5.5 until I have a chance to check it out.
Using a magnum primer might increase pressures a bit, but won't hurt anything. Mind you, when you run out and buy regular primers you'll have to work up the load again.
However, magnum primers are about the powder used(not the cartridge name as seen on Hodgdon's site for some reason.). They burn a bit hotter for a bit longer and are for igniting hard to light powders and extreme cold weather shooting(that's more for rifles than handguns).
They have absolutely nothing whatever to do with the shape of the granules.
HP-38 doesn't need magnum primers. Win 231 doesn't need 'em either. Even though Hodgdon's site says they used 'em for their Win 231 .357 tests, but not for .38 Special. That'd be published data for W231/HP-38 that calls for magnum primers. (Not that Nick is in any way wrong or anything remotely like it. I think some web developer at Hodgdon is very confused. They list magnum primer use with all magnum named cartridges.) Got no response when I asked 'em about it either.
However, magnum primers are about the powder used(not the cartridge name as seen on Hodgdon's site for some reason.). They burn a bit hotter for a bit longer and are for igniting hard to light powders and extreme cold weather shooting(that's more for rifles than handguns).
They have absolutely nothing whatever to do with the shape of the granules.
HP-38 doesn't need magnum primers. Win 231 doesn't need 'em either. Even though Hodgdon's site says they used 'em for their Win 231 .357 tests, but not for .38 Special. That'd be published data for W231/HP-38 that calls for magnum primers. (Not that Nick is in any way wrong or anything remotely like it. I think some web developer at Hodgdon is very confused. They list magnum primer use with all magnum named cartridges.) Got no response when I asked 'em about it either.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Well, might not hurt anything. Any time you start with more powder than the powder manufacturer lists as the maximum load, and then pile on with a magnum primer instead of a standard primer, IMHO it's not wise to flat out predict that it won't hurt anything.T. O'Heir said:
I know I wouldn't do it. Certainly not without creeping up to that charge weight very gradually, checking velocity and case condition with lower charge weights along the way.
jersurf101
New member
Any time you change components, like a primer or projectile, it is wise to start around the minimum published data. During the panic all I could get were CCI small pistol magnum primers and they performed admirably for me with my LIGHT bullseye and unique .38, 357 and .40sw loads. I did not use them with my full house .357 mag 2400 recipes. If you are already pushing the high end I would back way off if planning to switch to a hotter primer. I am always conscious that my body parts can be affected poorly making reloading mistakes. Especially when loading for semiautomatic pistols or rifles.
On several occasions to resolve questions I have called and also emailed CCI. They are excellent at getting back to you and Email typically takes 3-5 days. Here is a CCI Contact Us link and here is the phone number: 1 (800) 379-1732. A representative will be available to answer your calls between 7 a.m. – 7 p.m. CT Monday through Friday.
Ron
sghart3578
New member
The powder charge you are using is now considered over max but at one time was okay. Times change I guess.
At one time I was on a quest to soup up my 1911 and I have shot many cast bullets loads at that charge and higher.
I have a load with a 150 gr LSWC that does a legitimate 1150 fps in my HK USP.
But my hotrodding days never got me what I wanted out of a standard 1911, I was just beating up the gun.
It is true many factory self defense rounds will clock at 930 fps plus but I would stick to standard pressure loads for now.
The reason is margin of error. I'll explain what I mean.
If you load at the top of the range all the time you have to be careful of overcharges. Most powder throws are consistent but let's say you have one that throws the occasional .5 grain heavy. If you are already at the top that may be enough to cause problems.
If you couple that with magnum primers and the pressure spikes they may cause then the stars could all align at once for you in a bad way.
As a side note on magnum primers:
I don't use my chronograph much any more. I have a settled list of loads for each gun. But when I first got my lever action 357 mag I was really intent on putting it through the process of finding the best load for several different powders.
At the time all I had was small pistol magnum primers. I noticed that my SD numbers were very large, larger than expected. The magnum primers were causing pressure spikes and also sticky extraction, especially when it was hot outside. Also, the one and only case separation I have ever had in 40 years of doing this was a load of AA #7 and a magnum primer.
Take everything I have written with a grain of salt as YMMV.
Steve in N CA
At one time I was on a quest to soup up my 1911 and I have shot many cast bullets loads at that charge and higher.
I have a load with a 150 gr LSWC that does a legitimate 1150 fps in my HK USP.
But my hotrodding days never got me what I wanted out of a standard 1911, I was just beating up the gun.
It is true many factory self defense rounds will clock at 930 fps plus but I would stick to standard pressure loads for now.
The reason is margin of error. I'll explain what I mean.
If you load at the top of the range all the time you have to be careful of overcharges. Most powder throws are consistent but let's say you have one that throws the occasional .5 grain heavy. If you are already at the top that may be enough to cause problems.
If you couple that with magnum primers and the pressure spikes they may cause then the stars could all align at once for you in a bad way.
As a side note on magnum primers:
I don't use my chronograph much any more. I have a settled list of loads for each gun. But when I first got my lever action 357 mag I was really intent on putting it through the process of finding the best load for several different powders.
At the time all I had was small pistol magnum primers. I noticed that my SD numbers were very large, larger than expected. The magnum primers were causing pressure spikes and also sticky extraction, especially when it was hot outside. Also, the one and only case separation I have ever had in 40 years of doing this was a load of AA #7 and a magnum primer.
Take everything I have written with a grain of salt as YMMV.
Steve in N CA