45 ACP LSWC or coated...witch shoot best

L

Longshot4

New member
I'm looking to make a large purchase of bullets and all I want is accuracy out of my Colt 1911 Gov. (1). Brinell #12 or #18 and why. (2)Would leading be a big issue at around 850 fps.? (3) How about coating benefits. (4) Do I need to lube them all and with what?

I have had good luck with Bullseye @ 4.4Gr. with 230 Gr. Win. FMJ but the cost is much harder to justify in larger Quantity.
 
either or

For several years, I achieved my most accurate loads using Hornady 200 gr LSWCs in front of 4.0 or 4.5 grs of Bullseye. I don't know the hardness, but they seem fairly soft. Lately, I achieved equal or better accuracy out of Berry's plated 230 gr RN, 200 gr SWC or RNFP and Missouri 200 gr coated RN. The latter is BN-18 and I use Bullseye, Tight group or 231. I believe either plated, coated or plain lead are more accurate than jacketed. If you want to squeeze a little or accuracy out of these bullets, you can separate them by weight. I found all of these bullets are +/- 0.6 grs (i.e. 199.8 - 201.0 grs.)
 
Not sure what coating you are referring to.....powder coating?

If you shoot powder coated bullets, there will be no leading. Period.

If you shoot cast lead, then I can reference my own experiences.

I am not a fan of "hard cast". I learned my lesson over say 45 years of casting.

I learned long ago that bullets in the BHN 8 to BHN 10 range and sized appropriately will not lead.

The 45 ACP is a low pressure (21,000 psi according to SAAMI specifications) cartridge. Thus, in order for the cast bullet to seal the bore, it has to obturate at pressures below that mark. Hard cast won't do it and therefore will lead the barrel.

I size mine to 0.452" and shoot out of barrels that slug at 0.451" Very accurate and no leading.

I cast approximately 100 lbs of bullets per year and have great success as long as I size correctly and don't get them too hard.

I use the same methodology from 9 mm up to 500 S&W. Works great.
 
The issue with hard cast bullets in the 45 auto is usually just diameter. I had one scruffy barrel that would lead a bit with hard bullets until I moved to the .4525-.4530" size range. They then obturate the bore by their diameter being great enough rather than by being upset by the pressure, as the softer, narrower bullets depend on being able to do. I've made both shoot just fine, and matching diameter is one key to it.

Where the soft bullet's "bumping up" from the pressure really outdoes hard cast bullets is in revolvers with smooth bore surfaces, but with a constriction where the barrel screws into the frame. In that situation the soft bullet can re-expand to keep the bore obturated (sealed off) after passing through the constriction, where a harder one cannot. Using a tighter spec, smooth surface 1911 barrel, on two occasions I have shot about 3000 rounds of commercial hard cast bullets through a 1911 over a three day period, without cleaning, and had no failures and no problems. At about the 3000 round mark, the powder and burned lube fouling had caked up enough in every nook and cranny that the gun started to fail to go fully into battery without some added thumb pressure being applied to the back end of the slide. No significant lead accumulation ever appeared. What little there was—traces between the lands back around the throat—seemed to be shooting itself out as fast as it was being picked up, as it just stayed at that level after the first fifty rounds or so.

I want to try the same endurance shooting with powder coated bullets and Hodgdon Universal sometime. Both are cleaner shooting than the lubricated cast bullets and Bullseye I was using on those two previous occasions.
 
Since I found out how to fit my cast bullets to the gun, I've had to deal with very little leading. For my .45 ACP, I usually cast with my "mystery metal" alloy, mebbe 10-12 BHN. My Ruger and my RIA 1911 digest Lyman 225 LRN with upper loads of Unique well without leading. I have loaded a lot of Lee's 200 gr SWC with my Speed green lube and get no leading.

I also PCed some bullets for my 45s and the accuracy is no better and no worse than nekkid lead bullets. One advantage of coated bullets is they are clean; clean handling and clean shooting. Even though I cast my own and have PCed a bunch I have purchased some coated bullets. I've used mebbe 1200 Precision Coated bullets in .45 and 9mm (Hy-Tek coating), and out of curiosity, I recently bought some Bayou coated (looks like PC) bullets in .45 and 9mm calibers. Not overly expensive and quick easy shipping. Yet to be loaded.
 
Posting after Unclenick has spoken is always awkward :p But here's one ordinary guy's experience:

All I want is accuracy out of my Colt 1911 Gov.
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Me too. And I happen to have a Colt "Series 80" 1911, from 1984 - purchased new. I have some 20,000 rounds through it. It just needs to shoot straight. And it does. Well. Very well.

(1). Brinell #12 or #18 and why.
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(2). Would leading be a big issue at around 850 fps.?
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These days, my Colt is fed a diet exclusively of these . . . http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=56&category=5&secondary=13&keywords= The BHN of 12 seems to be just right. I run these 200 SWC's as hot as 841 f/s (using 5.0g W231/HP-38). After a typical shooting session (150 - 200 rounds), barrel leading is minimal. And like Unclenick's mentioned experience, it seems it doesn't matter how many rounds are fired; about the same amount of lead is present. At any rate, the buildup is nothing a few scrubs with a wire brush n Hoppe's #9 won't take care of. BTW, I've never tried running them hotter. I found no need, as the recoil impulse is typical 1911 and I've been pleased with this loading for decades.

(3) How about coating benefits.
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I'm not a fan of coated bullets. I think they stink of burning electrical insulation and find it literally nauseating. So I can't really answer. What I will say, is that I believe it is hard to beat lead for accuracy. And since leading isn't really a problem (for me), coated bullets are a non-starter.
 
I'm not a fan of coated bullets for the simple fact that they mask one of the best indicators that there is something wrong with your cast load.

Bullet leading is usually caused by either a bullet that doesn't fit properly, or the wrong hardness for the application, or a combination of both. A cast bullet that leads the barrel will not be the optimum, most accurate load. If you just coat a bullet in a bad load to keep it from leading, you are simply covering up the symptoms that tell you something is wrong with it.
 
Only ever loaded cast 230 grain RN's and FP's using Bullseye. 4.5, I think. Bit slower than 850 fps. Never had an issue with leading.
No such thing as hard or soft when I started. Never been an issue, one way or the other, either.
850 fps is a tick faster than Alliant's Max load for 230 TMJ's. Quite a bit faster than their lead 200 grain Max load. The Unique 230 cast load in my old Lyman book is a bit over 100 FPS faster than the Bullseye Max load, so leading isn't going to bother you.
Coated bullets are mostly about reducing lead in the range air. I'm not convinced it makes the least bit of difference. Powder coating is just paint.
 
I'm not a fan of coated bullets for the simple fact that they mask one of the best indicators that there is something wrong with your cast load.

Bullet leading is usually caused by either a bullet that doesn't fit properly, or the wrong hardness for the application, or a combination of both. A cast bullet that leads the barrel will not be the optimum, most accurate load. If you just coat a bullet in a bad load to keep it from leading, you are simply covering up the symptoms that tell you something is wrong with it
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The same can be said of jacketed bullets...
 
I thank all of you for your input. It will save me from spending money on bullets less than the quality I am looking for. As usual the firing line comes through to pass on valuable information to the shooters.

I'm a happy man.;)
 
A PC or Hi-Tek coated bullet will hide those "indicators" (leading). A jacketed bullet will also have none of the "indicators" mentioned. A small jacketed bullet will not lead, but show other symptoms of a small bullet; poor accuracy, tumbling. A PCed bullet will not lead the barrel if it's too small, just like a jacketed bullet will not lead the barrel if too small...

And yep, I've seen jacketed bullets too small for my 45 ACP; .450" from the manufacturer...
 
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