45 acp case length

J

joeanybody

New member
I had been having troubles with jamming and sticking in my ruger when at the range. At first i thought it was the type of bullet and oal because the manual had it set right at the low. However,upon closer examination ive also noticed that none of my brass is the same length.
Ive always gone by the old timers thoughts of never trimming pistol brass so i had never even thought to measure them. My 10th hornady manual has the case length set at 0.892. My 49th lyman has it set at 0.888. My lee manual has a diagram and the sierra manual says 0.892.
I hate it when they can't decide. Now for the nitty gritty. My largest brass is 0.899 in length, my shortest brass is 0.880 in length.

1. Is there a safety concern with using brass so short or long? Ie case capacity loss
2. Which manual should i go by?
3. what would the cutoff length be for culling brass?
 
SAAMI Max case length is .898 -.010. That's the .898 minus 10 thou for the minimum case length of .888". The Trim-to is .893". Cases that are between .898" and .888" are ok.
Highly unlikely you'll ever have to trim .45 ACP regularly. They usually crack before they stretch. And trimming just 1 thou is nearly impossible.
1. Case capacity has nothing to do with it. The .880" is 8 thou too much headspace as the .45 headspaces on the case mouth.
2. Partial to the Lyman book myself. Only Hornady and Sierra know where that .892" comes from. Lee does no testing of any kind themselves. They use the powder maker's data for the charges and SAAMI for pictures. http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm
3. Easiest to use the Max OAL and the Trim-to. However, pistol cases rarely need trimming.
 
As previously stated you have other issues than cartridge case length,
As a general rule do not trin straight walled cases. They almost always
shorten with times fired.
 
Not sure what you mean by jamming are you saying the cases will not extract or are the rounds jamming when when the cycling. But.....
Have you ever performed a plunk test to determine the max COL for that Ruger using that bullet.
 
Last edited:
snakeye said:
Not sure what you mean by jamming are you saying the cases will not extract or are the rounds jamming when when the cycling. But.....
Have you ever performed a plunk test to determine the max COL for that Ruger using that bullet.
Click to expand...
Actually the jamming occurring is both. On some it doesnt extract on others it fails to feed. This is why i looked at case length. On the failure to extract it could because the bullet was too far in for the extractor to grab.
 
On the failure to extract it could because the bullet was too far in for the extractor to grab.
Click to expand...

On all of the semi-autos that I’ve seen, the extractor doesn’t reach in and grab a chambered round that was auto fed. The extractor captures the rim as the bullet is fed from the magazine. I’m pretty sure your Ruger does the latter, in which case your failures to extract aren’t caused by too short of a case. Could be the case jamming into the leade and the extractor isn’t strong enough to maintain its grip to pull it out or it could be a weak extractor spring or chipped extractor claw.

Actually the jamming occurring is both. On some it doesn't extract on others it fails to feed.
Click to expand...

I’m still not clear on what you are calling a failure to feed. Is the round not fully chambering, like getting hung up on the feed ramp? Or is it fully chambering but the slide isn’t going into battery? If the latter, your COL could be too long for that particular bullet and the bullet is jamming in the lands. That might also explain the failures to extract.

Troubleshooting is difficult at best over the internet, especially without pics. The more detail you can provide, the better chance of getting a solution. For instance, like snakeye asked earlier, do your rounds pass the plunk test or not?
 
Higgite, i wish i had pictures for you. I cant describe the failure to feed jam. Either the case or the bullet sticks on the top of the barrel portion. It is possible that part of the issue is magazine related and i got 2 seperate problems at the same time. However, i lean towards what has changed seeing as this particular gun has never ever jammed before. The only things that have changed are case length and bullet type.col being too long is not likely as they were loaded to minimum. I will strip the gun and look at the extractor. It could be the spring as the gun has close to 5000 rounds put through it. But again i am doubtful because of the past history. As far as the plunk test, I have never performed it. I know about it but have never done it. I have already pulled all these bullets so its a moot point now. I thank everyone for the responses. I will cull everything below .888. I dont trim pistol brass anyway. Eventually i will get to loading this one again and might learn if it waa bullet or case or col or gun. In the meantime i got new bullets on the way and l a box of factory to test the gun.ill get to the bottom of it one way or another.
 
I shoot exclusively range pick-ups with unknown histories. At that, I have never trimmed a 45 case, and likely never will.

I also shoot a Ruger. It's a SR1911. I shoot exclusively handloads. My COL is 1.23" with a .468" case mouth diameter (crimp) for 230 grain RN. This pistol runs smoothly with no hiccups in extracting or feeding.

It sounds like you're having failure to return to battery issues. In the early life of my SR1911, I was getting a few of those, about 1 in a 100, which was not acceptable. To address this, I did several things all at the same time to address the failure to return to battery issue:

1. Installed a new recoil spring - they are cheap off of shopruger.com - $2 a pop. I now change the recoil spring on a preventative basis - about every 2K rounds,

2. Used a firmer grip when shooting,

3. Used more lube - grease for what slides and oil for anything else,

4. With a Q-tip and some Semi-Chrome polish, I gently polished the feeding ramp to give the surface a smooth shine. It only takes a couple of circular motions with a Q-tip, and specifically, no Dremel tools or the like are used,

5. I settled on the COL and crimp diameter mentioned above,

6. I began using a push-through case uniforming die (Lee Bulge Buster die) to assure the range pick-up cases are consistent from one to the next especially at the rim and web area.

I did all of this at one time - about 4K rounds ago. Since then, I've not had a hiccup with the SR1911. This includes smooth functioning. That includes multiple bullet weights and configurations.

Couldn't say which step, or combination of steps, corrected the functioning. I now consider the pistol to be reliable.

There might be something in those steps which could benefit you...
 
Either the case or the bullet sticks on the top of the barrel portion.
Click to expand...

That's known as a feed jam and not likely related to case length . This is likely do to bullet profile that the gun is not liking or seating depth issues

The only things that have changed are case length and bullet type.col being too long is not likely as they were loaded to minimum
Click to expand...

Am I reading this right to mean this is a new bullet you've never loaded before ??? Is so even if it's the same type RN , WC , FN etc but different manufacture . Your "COAL" can be quite different from manufacture to manufacture .

Now my first question is , are you using the manufactures recommended seating depth or the general profile recommended seating depth ?

When do the rounds fail to extract ? When fired or when manually trying to unload the firearm ??

What I'd do since you've pulled all the bullets is go back and make a dummy round ( no powder or primer ) using the same brass and bullets to the exact COAL you where seating to before . Then do a plunk test in your barrel . It's really the only gauge that matters .

I'll leave it there for now until we know more .

EDIT , Forgot about the Glock bulge . If range pick up your die might not be sizing the case down enough ?
 
Bullet type seems likely to cover the feed issue. Some shapes need shorter COL's than others. Check the bullet manufacturer's recommendation. Even with that, some guns are troublesome with anything not close to a round nose. A gunsmith can usually make them feed wider varieties of ammo if there are problems. Sometimes magazine lips need reforming, too.

Another thing to check, with extraction failures, is to be sure the bullet isn't shoved so deeply into the case that it gets below the neck region where the brass starts to get thicker. If it is, that will expand the case over allow diameter and that can cause both feed failures and failure to extract, with the extractor hopping the case rim.

For most .45 Auto brass, you can seat about 0.35" before this happens.

For .45 Auto, seating depth is with respect to a maximum length case:

Seating Depth = 0.898" + bullet length - COL

If you calculate that and the number comes out greater than about 0.35", you are probably seating too deeply.
 
Bayou said:
I shoot exclusively range pick-ups with unknown histories. At that, I have never trimmed a 45 case, and likely never will.

I also shoot a Ruger. It's a SR1911. I shoot exclusively handloads. My COL is 1.23" with a .468" case mouth diameter (crimp) for 230 grain RN. This pistol runs smoothly with no hiccups in extracting or feeding.

It sounds like you're having failure to return to battery issues. In the early life of my SR1911, I was getting a few of those, about 1 in a 100, which was not acceptable. To address this, I did several things all at the same time to address the failure to return to battery issue:

1. Installed a new recoil spring - they are cheap off of shopruger.com - $2 a pop. I now change the recoil spring on a preventative basis - about every 2K rounds,

2. Used a firmer grip when shooting,

3. Used more lube - grease for what slides and oil for anything else,

4. With a Q-tip and some Semi-Chrome polish, I gently polished the feeding ramp to give the surface a smooth shine. It only takes a couple of circular motions with a Q-tip, and specifically, no Dremel tools or the like are used,

5. I settled on the COL and crimp diameter mentioned above,

6. I began using a push-through case uniforming die (Lee Bulge Buster die) to assure the range pick-up cases are consistent from one to the next especially at the rim and web area.

I did all of this at one time - about 4K rounds ago. Since then, I've not had a hiccup with the SR1911. This includes smooth functioning. That includes multiple bullet weights and configurations.

Couldn't say which step, or combination of steps, corrected the functioning. I now consider the pistol to be reliable.

There might be something in those steps which could benefit you...
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice. im not sure if anything in that is applicable to my problem, but i can definitely say it wont hurt and will do it. especially replacing the spring and the feed ramp polish
 
Am I reading this right to mean this is a new bullet you've never loaded before ???
Click to expand...
yes. i normally shoot 230 gr RN I tried 200 SWC this time around.
Now my first question is , are you using the manufactures recommended seating depth or the general profile recommended seating depth ?
Click to expand...
i cant remember right off hand where i got the info from, however with a quick look on xtremebullets.com i dont think i got it from there so i would have to say it came from either the hornady, lee, or lyman manuals so it would be a general profile. I only use reputable sources for recipes. However, i understand what you are saying and need to look at that bullet a little closer.

When do the rounds fail to extract ? When fired or when manually trying to unload the firearm ??
Click to expand...
I Apologize. Your trying to help and I cant remember the details. However, at all times i was able just reach in and grab it with no resistance with a fingernail. I never needed a tool to remove the bullet. there were a couple of failure to fire as well. quite annoying.
 
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