.45 ACP / 625JM handloads?

R

rnovi

New member
First post to TFL, well, here I go!

Well, it happened. I let an obsession get the best of me and wound up putting a 625JM in the gun safe. Of course, not before I planted 150 rounds downrange.

I am trying to work up some handloads for the 625. I thought about posting this in the reloading forum, but this is directly related to how a 625 revolver digests loads vs. a 1911 auto. My current load progression started with a box of my 1911 loads: 5.5 gr. Unique under a 230 gr. FMJ (well, plated 230gr RN). The Speer manual lists, for 230 gr. RN FMJ, 5.9 gr. Minimum, 6.9 max. It also lists 5.3 / 5.8 for 230 gr. cast lead.

I also loaded a test box with some AutoRim loads just to be safe. 4.0 gr. of Bullseye, 230 gr. TC FP. 50 rounds.

Ok, so here's the long and short of it. The 5.5 gr Unique loads function fine in my 1911 and although they are bit stout by my measure, they aren't uncomfortable and 150 rounds is a normal range senssion with them. Full house .357 loads aren't that bad to me either through my 6" GP100.

But damn if those 5.5gr loads hurt after just 50 rounds! I checked with a few of my range friends and they all agreed that the recoil just seemed a lot more stout out of the 625 than the 1911.

The 4.0 Bullseye/230 gr loads were a lot more comfortable and controllable. Later in the week, 150 rounds of them in a sitting wasn't punishing at all. A bit dirty, but not bad at all.

Anyone have any suggestions on some low end loads / min/max? I have a can of Bullseye and a can of Unique in the cabinet and would prefer to stick with those powders for now. I am very open to suggestions - especially in the realm of cleaner burning powders (I read that Clays and Vhit are pretty clean burning?).
 
rnovi,
I shoot a 625 PC in USPSA.

I load 4.0 gr Clays under a 230 gr FMJ (RN) OAL 1.2

It shoots well and is not punishing.

I had a bunch of them with OAL at 1.3 and it was a super soft load. If you shoot a sport requiring a major PF, the longer length isn't good as it worked up at 165.1 PF. That's too close to going minor.

Good luck,

Dave
 
Suprised that you feel the recoil of the 625 is stouter than the 1911, I have just the opposite opinion, but I'm shooting a 5" 625. Any way, to your recoil problem, I suggest that you try going to a 200 grain bullet. You should notice a decrease.
 
Second time at the range.

Went back to the range tonite to make sure the recoil was actually "real" or just my imagination. Imagine my surprise to find that it was a bit of both.

I blew off 20 moonclips of 6.0 - 6.5 gr. Unique 230 gr. FMJ's and discovered the error of my ways. It wasn't that recoil was all that severe, it was the way I was holding the 625 that made the difference. I was holding "high" on the grip with the web of my hand up against the upper steel elbow, my palm riding a bit above the swell in the backstrap. Simply put, holding the 625 that way magnified the recoil and increased muzzle flip.

I adjusted my grip lower, allowing the swell of the backstrap to rest directly in my palm changed everything. Recoil was firm, but not punishing. Certainly nowhere near as stout as a full house .357 load. 4.0 gr. Bullseye loads allowed me to practice DA shooting at will.

Airedale, much appreciate the advice on Clays. I will have to give it a shot.
 
Wwjmd?

I don't recall Jerry choking down on the 625 grip... In fact, I'm pretty sure Jerry rides the grip high like you were doing. One of my concerns was the smooth grips. I've never had a fondness for them, but Jerry's seem to work for me and all my guest shooters preferred them as well...

FWIW, I use the sam 6.4 gr. of power pistol in 9 & .45 which produces a decent, powerful for the caliber round, without going nuts, and without a lot of muzzle flash. I've not found the recoil abusive in the least...
 
I've had real good luck with the following lhandload in my 625's:

625_Vcomp_sf.jpg


4.5 grains Bullseye powder
200 grain SWC cast or plated bullet
Federal 150 primer
Star-Line brass
OAL 1.25 --> 1.26"

Should do right at 800 fps in your 625, and will fuction in 1911 autos with the stock recoil spring.

Good Luck...

Joe
 
I put another 200 rounds through the 625 last night - no issues at all with recoil. Maybe I really did just have to get used to it? 4.0 gr. Bullseye and a 225 gr. FPTC with Win primers - and had two failures to ignite. Primer dimpled (full strength spring) and no ignition. These loads also cycle in my GoldCup - had yet another primer impact failure there. Had two other no ignitions on my GP100 with Win Primers as well.

Going back to CCI primers. Boy are the Win primers giving me issues.

Joe, nice group! What distance is that shot at?
 
Was going to watch Jerry set the revolver speed record again on TiVO last night, but was fortunate enough to catch him in a new commercial with Doug Koenig.

Jerry grips the gun as high up as possible on the back strap.

I had problems with both CCI and Win. primers; I mean QC, not light hits. Out of 1k primers I had about 10 dead primers with CCI. I had close to 40 with Winchester. I mean these primers would not go off, period. Fortunately I was shooting them in semi (and full) autos, so I was able to restrike them after waiting to see if I had a hangfire... I've since loaded 3k .45, 5k 9mm and about 1k .357 magnum with Fed primers and had *Maybe* 5 dead primers... maybe...

HTH!
 
rnovi,
My first revolver was a 625-8. I used 5gr 231 with 185 West Coast FP plated bullets; Win primers. Shot about 3k rounds using ACP cases then switched to AR cases. This is a very mild load and great for practice.

Eventually, I got interested in the 45 Super & Rowload loadings. I got up to about 1500 fps with quality 185 gr bullets using PowerPistol and AA#2&5. I was able to shoot 100 yard targets with no change of POA. I stopped doing this because I realized that I was beginning to creep into 44 mag range and as strong as an N frame is there are limits. I bought an FA83 44 mag and went back to shooting my light load in the 625.

The 625 can be a pussycat or a tiger: your choice.
 
Steel, that is really pushing hard, I agree. I don't have any need to push the 45 ACP to those levels. My first goals is an accurate, light load for DA practice and target shooting. Figure that this is likely 65% of all my loads. Eventually I would like to shoot competitively and would like to see 1,000 fps on a 200 gr SWC or RN. Figure that would ultimately be around 30% of loads in the long run. For steel plate X-mas trees I think this should be sufficient.

The last 5% would be defense loads...and I hope I never need even 1/10th of 1 % there...
 
Another vote for 4.0 Clays (plain, NOT Universal) under 230gr. bullets. You can drop to 3.8 for a little less kick. Clays has become my favorite powder for .45. I've had great results and it's relatively clean. It leaves a little soot that wipes away with a paper towel. I'm told that Vihtavouri 310 is even better with 230gr., but haven't tried it yet. Kinda pricy stuff compared to Clays.
 
I like 4.2 grains of Clays under a 200 grain Berry's plated SWCHP. This load works really well in my 625 and also in my Springer 1911 and Witness .45.
 
Well, I just loaded up 600 rounds of .38 spec and 350 rounds of .45ACP just to burn off my can of Bullseye. Sounds like Clays is definitely on the list as my next powder of choice. I go between a 200gr swc and the 230 gr RN's (for improved moonclip loading).
 
I havent shot a 625 in years and sold mine off as i had several other revolvers that fit its bill better, but i do shoot ALOT of 45 ACP and the most accurate load ive found for most 1911s and a few 45 revolvers has been a 200 grain semi-wadcutter over 4.7 grains of Hodgdon Titegroup. Out of a 5" barrel its good for about 825 FPS and ive always gotten an extreme spread of 20 FPS or less...which for such a low charge weight, is FANTASTIC! Most any cast semi-wadcutter will work as long as their sized properly...most commercial ones will work fine, i however cast my own. VERY accurate load, very consistant, very mild recoil and best of all, burns CLEAN....Clays is a good shotgun powder, but ive never had any real spectacular results in any pistol cartridges with it. Titegroup uses low charge weights, is position insensative and gives great performance. Its a teeny bit faster than clays which is what it sounds like your looking for as it will let you tune those 45 loads down pretty far and give some outstanding plinking ammo. Its cheap too...ive been buying it for 11 bucks a pound....got a 4 pound jug for 39.99 a few months ago.
 
Actually, Titegroup is a little slower than Clays. ;)

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php

I've found it to be considerably dirtier than Clays in .45. I didn't like it at all with 230gr. bullets. The stuff was filthy. It is much better with 200gr. bullets. I definitely would go with Clays for 230gr and it also works well with 200gr. If you're going to be shooting just 200gr., Titegroup is a cheaper solution. From what I've read, Titegroup performs at it's best in higher pressure rounds, such as .40 and 9mm. One oddity about Titegroup is that the stuff burns HOT! The brass stays hot a long time after firing, which makes picking up brass at competitions not so fun.

I use Clays in IPSC and Steel competitions and I've been pleased. In my 1911, recoil is slow and soft. With Titegroup, recoil was snappy. This was not as noticable in my 625. I do plan on giving VV 310 a try soon. It comes highly recommended from the competition crowd. However, it costs a LOT more than good ol' Clays.
 
Hmm...interesting...hodgdon is the only place i found that stated clays as being faster than titegroup...

Everywhere ive seen(other than hodgdon now)that lists titegroup shows it as being faster.. :confused:

http://www.steyrscout.org/burnrate.htm

http://handloads.com/misc/burnrate.htm

Maybe they and a few other people know something Hodgdon doesnt??

Cleanliness really isnt all that relative when dealing with super fast burning powders like these...especially when using cast bullets. The better part of the fouling is from the bullet lube burning. Fire some conventional cast bullets and some bullets lubed with Lees liquid alox(which doesnt burn) and tell me you dont see a difference in the amount of soot and crud on the gun, on the cases and in the barrel. Either way, ive always found it to be more clean and consistant with any cartridge over clays....check out hodgdons success stories or any cowboy action shooting forum(where slow speeds and accuracy is essential)...they rant and rave about the stuff.
 
Well, call me silly for thinking Hodgdon would know something about the relative burn rates of their powders! :rolleyes:

My experience with both powders is with plated and coated bullets. Yes, if you shoot cast, well yeah, it's gonna be messier. I ain't knocking Titegroup, merely suggesting that it's strengths are in higher pressure rounds and lighter .45 bullet loads. In my experience, it didn't do well with 230gr. .45. I WOULD use it with 200gr. for heavier loads. Clays is my personal choice for lighter loads. I've heard a few people make vague comments about inconsistency, but I have yet to experience that. I'm getting the 'A' zone hits in weekly IPSC matches to prove it. :) Titegroup is just as accurate, but has a sharper recoil. Some people prefer that. In my experience with the bullets mentioned, the gun, barrel, and cases were noticably dirtier and harder to clean. The soot from Clays has been wiping off with a dry paper towel for me.

Your mileage may vary of course and everyone has their preferences. Try 'em all and see with what works for you. If ya like it, load it up and shoot it! :D
 
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