45-90 - Should we administer life support?

J

Jack 99

New member
Just reading the comments on the viability of the 45-70 and I remembered one of my dad's old wall hangers, a Winchester, produced somewhere around 1890, octagon barrel, chambered for 45-90. This round was designed to overcome the shortcomings of the 45-70, which supposedly you could "duck" at 100 yds with the old blackpowder loads (see the smoke from the end of the barrel, hit the dirt and have time for the lead to go over your head; do NOT try this at home). Its really just a lengthened 45-70 case and it never really caught on, even back in the 19th century. One advantage though is that you could still fire 45-70 from this rifle.

Anyone heard of it? Is anyone chambering a rifle for this round? Should it be revived? I don't know that much about the 45-70, but it seems that increased case capacity should give it even a little more oomph.
 
About the only rifles you'll see these days chambered for the .45-90 are Sharps replicas and Rolling Blocks. Sharps shooters also shoot rounds up to the .45-120 and the Big Fifty,the .50-90.

Bill
 
I've heard of several CAS shooters "back boring" their 45/70s so they'll be able to use the 45/90 for long range rifle events as cowboy action shooting matches.
 
Jack. The big problem with the 45-90 was the rifling twist rate was too slow for bullets much heavier that 300 gr. The 45-70 had a much faster twist rate and could stabilizes bullets even heavier than 500 gr.
Another round that suffers that same problem today is the .444 Marlin. it won't handle bullets heavier than 300 gr. with it's present twist rate.
The 45-90 was, I believe, considered an express version of the 45-70. Possibly it would be worth while to rechamber, say a Ruger #1 to 45-90, but then you'd have a rimmed .458 Magnum. (more or less.)
Bring it back? Why not? I need something new to wish for and drool over.
Paul B.
 
Whatever you do don't modify that rifle, whether 1886 or Highwall. Great cartridge. I would love to own one in an 1886. The reason the .450 Alaskan was developed for the 1886 Winchester was because they could no longer find .45-90 cases. The cases are now available again.
 
That rifle is in pretty rough shape, so it just hangs on the wall :( I wish it was a shooter. My dad got it from his uncle, who also gave him a Colt "Army Special" in 32-20, mint condition. Beautiful gun, 99% of original bluing intact.

Any idea what the old Winchester (I think its the 1886, I don't know old rifles that well) might be worth? Barrel is pitted and finish is almost non-existent, but the action seems solid as a rock. Is it worth anything to anybody?
 
This might surprise you, but I just dragged out my "Blue Book" and an 1886 Winchester rifle like you describe, even in ratty condition, lists for almost a thousand dollars. Mine is the 17th edition, and lists the 1886 rifle in lousy condition as between $500 and $700, plus 10% for octagon barrel and 30% for 45-90. If it has the pistol grip stock, double it. If it was minty, it'd be worth over $4000. Before you convert it to an awesome gun lamp, you might want to list it on a collector's board and see who bites. Me myself, I'd get some brass, dies and bullets, cook up a load that didn't have me looking for a chiropractor, and shoot the old monster! Hope this helps.


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With my shield or on it...
 
That is surprising.

I'm going home over Christmas and I'll take a look at it again. My dad has tried to give it to me about a half dozen times. Other than the lack of finish, really the only problem is the bad pitting in the barrel. Should I see a gunsmith about fixing that, or just see what it will bring as is? I wouldn't fire it in the shape the barrel is in now.

I don't deal with old guns too much, so any advice is appreciated.
 
You might be surprised at just how well a not-so-pretty barrel will shoot. I have had a bunch of surplus Mausers and Enfields and some bores were pretty badly pitted, but most would give acceptable groups between 2-4 MOA. I had one that was driving me nuts until I finally figured out that the rifle had been rebarreled with a 7.65 Argentine barrel, it would shoot doughnut-shaped groups, everywhere but in the middle due to the oversized bore. I rebarreled it with a used military take-off(in the right caliber), and it shot fine.

As to rebarreling the rifle, I'd advise against it. Such work would surely decrease the value, even if it made the rifle better. Cleaning the barrel well might ease the pitting or make it worse, there's no way to know without doing it. The 45-90 isn't a particularly high pressure round, or you could use standard pressure 45-70 ammo and it shouldn't cause any trouble. Apparently this was common practice around the turn of the century if the proper ammo wasn't available.

Standard 45-70 loads are only around 20,000 psi, slightly more than the .45 Auto, so you can see there is an ample margin there unless your barrel is really spent. The 1886 action is plenty strong enough, that is one rugged rifle. Hope this helps.
 
Jack99. Locate some MP-7 bore cleaner. I had a 30-30, 1910 vintage that had been fired with early corrosive ammo and not properly cleaned. I tried the hot water route, which helped some, Hoppes, JB Bore Paste, no matter what I tried the bore stayed black. Got some MP-7 at a gun show, and spent a couple of hours working that barrel over. It still doesn't shine like a vew on, but it is a light gray and shoots pretty darn good. :) :) :) :)
If you cannot find it locally, you can order it at 1-800-YES-4MP7. It's not the cheapest bore cleaner around, but it is one of the best. JMHO.
No. I don't have any intereest in the company, I just use and like the stuff. It works. Remember to oil the bore well when you are done, as it even cleans out the pores of the metal. It is non-toxic, and was developed for the military for use in cleaning the barrels of Vulcan and mini-guns.
You might have to put in about 4 or 5 hours to clear that barrel up, if it can be cleaned up, but if it does the trick, look at what you have. Good luck.
Paul B.
 
Jack..

post your info about the rifle in Harley's forum, he should be able to answer it

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
This recent Saturday's "American Shooter" had a segment on black-powder Silhouette shooting. The .45-90 was one of the popular cartridges in use.
 
I've known pitted barrels which deliver acceptable accuracy (for hunting).

If you're worreid about safety, you may want to have the barrel relined to the same caliber and twist.

Robert Hoyt of Der Freischutz Shop will do it and is well known in blackpowder circles. He may be reached at 700 Fairfield Station Road, Fairfield, PA 17320. It'll cost you a little under $200 to make it a shooter again. Alternatively, you can install new barrel and have it chambered for the same cartridge. The old barrel may be kept for restoration/sentimental purposes. Can't quote you any price on that.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
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