45-70 lever-show me yours!

A

axis223

New member
currently have a 45-70 cva but the stocks a little weird. always been attracted to the marlin lever guns.

my only issue is I'm worried about the wood stock in winter time and I'm hearing the new marlins are somewhat junk. also not sure whats best. strait stock, pistol grip, etc.

your thoughts? show me your 45-70s.
 
I had a marlin 45-70. Nice rifle but it kicked the hell out of me with my reloads. The first three rounds I fired from it were all touching. By the time I shot 15 rounds through it it was all over the paper. It took that cheap cabelas scope apart. It looked like it was made by tasco. So I shot it open sights. Mine was a newer one with the ballard rifling.

I reduced the load with the 300gr remington hollow point down to about 1600 fps. I killed a deer with that load about 45 yards away. He feel over with his legs sticking straight out. That was a much more pleasant load to shoot.

I decided my 44 mag marlin would easily match that reduced load and since I don't have any dinosaurs to hunt in my state I sold it. I don't miss it. Plus a buddy has one thats like new and he wants what he paid for it. He paid $386 + tax and has several boxes of ammo to go with it. He bought one of those Quigley rifles and offered me the 45-70 a couple of years ago.
 
I responded to your thread on The High Road, but this one is taking a different direction so I'll add more info here. The owner of my favorite local gun store told me once, "everybody wants a 45-70, until they buy one." He pointed to one on his used rack and told me that he had sold that rifle 3 times and the next time would be the 4th. He made a small fortune selling it and having guys bring it back to trade on something else.

I bought one in 1976 and had it for over 30 years before selling it. I'd not recommend one to anyone, I think they are the most over rated round available. But it is one of those itches that many guys just have to scratch.

It was never used as a buffalo gun. Most of the buffalo died prior to the civil war which started in 1861. The 45-70 was introduced in 1873 and laws banning buffalo hunting were passed in 1874 to protect the ones left.

With traditional loads it is pretty weak, and was considered so even in it's day. It is comparable to a 45 caliber muzzle loader which is the minimum for deer in most states and considered to light for game larger than deer.

With modern hot loads it is a legitimate big game cartridge. But with recoil in the 458 WM range. If someone really wants to shoot big stuff a 375 is much more effective, and with much less recoil.
 
the fort bill was vetoed by U.S. grant in 1874 and the killing continued of the buffalo, orlando a brown killed over 5800 in a two month span in 1876. the buffalo were still being hunted in 1882. so i,m sure the 45-70 was used in some of the killings. eastbank.
 
With modern hot loads it is a legitimate big game cartridge. But with recoil in the 458 WM range. If someone really wants to shoot big stuff a 375 is much more effective, and with much less recoil.
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There is no factory load 45/70 shot in a normal 22" pistol grip marlin that recoils anywhere close to any 458 mag gun. Not on this planet. The 375HH is hard to say as in a good rifle that does not kick much either and in a light gun it can be rough. They are both manageable enough. the 4570 certainly can be much milder and more fun than a full loaded H&H.

Your standard 405 grain load is a pissy cat to shoot and good effective short range round. It is nostalgic, if the buyer is reasonable in expectations this is a very nice round to play with or hunt.

The key to happiness in a any big bore is the right stock. The original old (1970's-90's) marlin 45/70 with 22" barrel, 1/2 magazine and flat rubber butt stock is an easy shooter and accurate and reliable gun.

Big guns are not for everybody. Crescent steel butt plates or super light guns not a good idea.

As for the new marlins made in Remington factory. I witness some junk first hand. Non functional crap. Now, I heard some new guns are better. I hope so - but; you hear so much 'stuff' on the web. My advise, is have a little patience and get a used marlin 45/70. Or buy a new one, in person from a good dealer who will help you out to check the gun up front and deal with the horrible customer service if needed. Maybe he can cycle a few snap caps. The gun I handled would jot even feed from the magazine. This is not a gun I would buy cheap from a web dealer.
 
I've always used a 300gr and now a premium like Barnes. Lower recoil and certainly effective on animals up to 300 lbs. Though I use factory or factory equivalent [1850 fps ] it's a softy in my Browning 1885 .This can be loaded hot like a Ruger #1 .
 
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This is my remlin guide gun. It is around 3 years old. I redid the stocks with truoil. (the pics don't due it justice I knew there was some nice wood under that crappy factory finish). It shoots very well with the hornady leverlution loads and even better with my reloads using the same bullets. 5 shot groups at 100 yards hover around 1.5 inches. Sometime around a inch. I put the cabelas lever gun 45-70 scope on it and have been happy with that. It is a very handy woods hunting rig. The recoil is mild with my 405 gr loads with 11.5gr of unquie but gets pretty stout with the full boar loads. The rifle is a blast.
 
I am old school with the 45/70...and that seems appropriate. The Martini is very accurate and the Carbine weighs like 10 ounces and kicks the snot out of me.

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I like the martini. Classic. I never was able to warm up to the trap doors. That trap door has a nasty butt plate on a lighter gun.

A word of caution on the Marlin guide gun. If recoil is a concern that is a little short and light. Some (all?)of them have ported barrels that reduce muzzle jump but not recoil. Some hunters dont like the guide guns due to the elevated noise level. Others may hunt with electronic hearing aids that block the noise? I bet, the marlin that was mentioned prior as getting returned was a guide gun. it feels great to carry, but not for every one. I really hate the porting. This is a case where each person has to find out for himself. My 2c.

I just like to re-iterate the Marlin 22", pistol grip with rubber butt plate will be a nice shooter.

Since we mention single shots. I have both Ruger No1 with 26" bbl and Miruko 1885 with 28" barrel. Both with pistol grip and flat butt (not steel) butt plates. Easy, all afternoon shooters. Stocks matter.

A properly stock light wt 1886 would make a nice gun. A light wt 86 is still a heavy brute and most if not all the repro have a miserable crescent steel butt. Pistol grip and shotgun butts were an option for the 86 back in the day.
 
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I don't have a picture and it wasn't even a LA, but my 45-70 experience was with my father's Springfield TD carbine, purchased in the 50's for a song I'm sure. It was a little beat but still had most of the finish, had the butt trap, second variant, as I recall, not Custer era. His load used #2400 powder. I never saw a 45 bullet mold, but he had a pal who was a casting fanatic, he probably made them. I fired it as a kid, actually have it on home movie, of course that load was very mild. I've toyed with the idea of buying a revolver, never did.
 
Guide Gun w/factory ported barrel purchased new in 1998. Very accurate with several loads. My 16 year old daughter claims it as her deer gun. Handloads rule!!!!



A 3" Shoot-N-See at 100 yards.

 
what do you guys think of the strait stock guide gun vs the pistol grip 22inch barrel for deer hunting?

ive never shot the strait stocks, they look like it would be awkward.
 
I have pre Remlin guide gun with straight stock and no porting. I love the thing. It is more accurate than I have any right to ask it to be. It is very handy in the woods. Follow up shots are fast and those big heavy bullets are highly effective.

As for it's adequacy on big game, big heavy bullets make big deep holes. Put a big deep hole in the vitals of any animal and it dies. As for comparisons with muzzleloaders, a 405 grain bullet and a 137 grain round ball are 2 entirely different animals with nothing in common. I don't think anyone would question the adequacy of the 30-06 on game. The largest game I have shot are hogs with the biggest around 500 lbs, not a moose but certainly much tougher than any deer. My 30-06 simply can't match the damage my 45-70 does. It puts them down hard. There simply isn't an animal walking this continent that a properly loaded 45-70 won't put down at modest ranges.

Now, as for recoil, it can certainly be entertaining but is largely overblown. Warmer modern loads from a bench are certainly an eye opener but under normal hunting conditions aren't bad. In addition, big heavy bullets don't require a lot of velocity to be effective and as velocity is reduced, felt recoil is greatly reduced.
 
A word of caution on the Marlin guide gun. If recoil is a concern that is a little short and light. Some (all?)of them have ported barrels that reduce muzzle jump but not recoil. Some hunters dont like the guide guns due to the elevated noise level. Others may hunt with electronic hearing aids that block the noise? I bet, the marlin that was mentioned prior as getting returned was a guide gun. it feels great to carry, but not for every one. I really hate the porting. This is a case where each person has to find out for himself. My 2c
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My guide gun does not have the ported barrel. The new ones do not(not sure when they stopped that). Mine rifle is actually quiet compared to normal rifles like a 270-30-06. At least with most loads. Some loads with slower powders can be quite noisy though. Depends on the load. That is one thing I like about this rifle it "fairly quiet" with low muzzle blast for a short barreled rifle. Especially for the ME it can produce. Even the hornady leverlotion loads seem to be more tame as far as muzzle blast and noise compared to more common rifles. I am sure this would change with a ported barrel though.
 
I don't find my ported Guide Gun to be overly loud. Recoil is fairly mild with 45-70 Government rounds. It's only with some of my handloads that recoil is really noticeable but I think it would be noticeable in any 45-70 and is not peculiar to the Guide Gun.
 
My 45/70's

I don't know how to do pics but I have 3 A Marlin guide gun a marlin Cowboy and a 336 Marlin custom fitted with a Dugles Bull bbl . All three shoot great . J.Michael
 
With modern hot loads it is a legitimate big game cartridge. But with recoil in the 458 WM range. If someone really wants to shoot big stuff a 375 is much more effective, and with much less recoil.
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I beg to differ on BOTH bolded points.

A Marlin with a 350 gr. RN loaded hot (2000 fps.) vs. a 458 WM 500 gr. 2150 fps. and both with vented pads is no comparison. The 458 kicks harder even in a rifle that weighs a pound and a half more.

And my Marlin doesn't even come CLOSE to my 375 RUM for felt recoil. Mine is the classic Marlin: solid pad, 1/2 tube mag. pistol grip stock @ 7.5 lbs. vs. Rem 700 Custom Shop AWR. with nice cushy recoil pad, and kevlar stock @ 8.25 lbs.

Edit to fix formatting
 
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