45-70 in an Enfield

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Nunya53

New member
When my father passed, I inherited his Gibbs Lee Enfield 45-70 conversion much like this...

http://www.armslist.com/posts/40027...ant-to-buy--navy-arms-gibbs-lee-enfield-45-70

Now, any off-the-shelf ammo I buy will be obviously rated for the many, many old rifles chambered in this round, but I think this rifle will handle a much more "robust" load.

Does anyone have a load they think would get the most out of this round in a solid bolt rifle, or at least a respectable starting point? Is it safe to use the Ruger rated loads? Does this fall into the "Strong Action Only" category?


Thanks,

Jerry
 
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Is it safe to use the Ruger rated loads?
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No, no NO!!!

it's not impossible that it MIGHT be able to handle SOME Ruger loads, but you cannot and should not just stick a Ruger Only level load in the gun and expect it to be problem free.

It is a bolt action, but its NOT the same kind of bolt action as a Mauser. It's a converted .303 British. I'd rate it as strong or stronger than modern lever actions, but it is not the same a the front locking Mauser, or the massive falling block of the Ruger single shots.

I would recommend working up into the range of data for the modern lever guns, and if you get to that top end without issues, then CAREFULLY creeping into the Ruger/bolt action range, and stopping at the first sign of anything wrong. That includes any case head expansion (over 0,001") or any of the other usual pressure signs.

Most of the time, when the books talk about bolt action .45-70s they are talking about converted Siamese Mauser actions. I'm not saying your Gibbs conversion won't handle those pressures, I'm saying it is foolish to just assume that it will, so careful testing is the order of the day.

You are risking a wrecked rifle, or worse, if you don't.
 
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No, no NO!!!
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That's why i'm here, brother and thank you. I've managed to survive 49 years on this earth and don't plan to do anything stupid to jeopardize that. I always ask questions. Modern lever action loads does sound viable to me, though.

Thank you for your input.

Jerry
 
In the 60s, the UK had a number of the MkIV Lee Enfields converted to 7.62 NATO, so the action of the MkIV was suitable for the SAAMI specs for that cartridge.

I am sure that if you follow thru with research on your own you will be able to determine what you have in your 45-70 conversion.
 
My condolences for your loss.
"...It's a converted .303 British..." And .303 Brit Mk VIII Ball operates at the same pressures as the "Modern Rifles" Max loads on Hodgdon's site. Max 300 grain loads run about the same velocity as .303 174 grain ball ammo.
A lot will depend on which professionally bubba'd Gibbs you have. The "Summit" was built on a No. 4 Rifle receiver with a 3 round mag, 21" barrel and 40" OAL. The Frontier Carbine was built on a No. 1 receiver with the same dimensions. Both weigh 8.5 pounds. You tell the difference by the bolt head. A No. 4's has a number on it. A standard No. 4 Mk I Lee-Enfield weighs ~9 pounds.
Those "Modern" Hodgdon loads would hurt to shoot. Lever action or Trap Door loads will not.
 
So, I "think" it is the frontier carbine which would be the No. 1 receiver based on comments here. I know I've had the bolt out at least once but for the life of me I can't figure out how to remove the damn thing........

Jerry
 
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Don't you just pull the bolt back, then flip the bolt head "up" to pass through the rear of the receiver??

Or is that one the one with the little latch you need to operate to turn the bolt head up?? I always get them confused, I think its the No.4 that has the latch...ok, just checked its the WWII action that had the latch, that's the No.4, isn't it???
:confused:
 
In the 60s, the UK had a number of the MkIV Lee Enfields converted to 7.62 NATO,
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The Gibbs rifles were not built on No4 actions, they were built on No1 actions. The SMLE action. Cordite cartridges at 49K psi. That pretty much means Trapdoor or 1886 loads only. Which is no slouch.
 
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I would NOT shoot higher pressure 45-70 in any rifle that is not specifically rated for such.

It's just not worth the risk. Just enjoy shooting that nice old rifle with the trapdoor loads, they are more than enough for Deer hunting and the like.
 
Now, any off-the-shelf ammo I buy will be obviously rated for the many, many old rifles chambered in this round, but I think this rifle will handle a much more "robust" load.
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Based on what? Have you calculated the load of the 303 British on the bolt face versus the bolt load of a "robust" 45/70?

I am going to say, don't assume anything for these old rifles. The Lee Enfield is not a rigid action, some of these rifles have already been through a couple of World Wars, and I would be cautious about hot loading one of these.
 
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