.444 or .45-70?

C

CMR

Inactive
Been looking at these for my next lever action rifle. What would be recommended? Looking to use it for deer, elk, and black bear but also don't want a "meat waster".
How's the recoil for each?
What about factory loads?
How's the stats for each?(Velocity, energy)
Was told that the .45-70 is more versitile but a hard hitter and the .444 had better penetration but limited to factory loads.

NEED HELP!!!:eek:
 
Only real way to take advantage of the full potential of 45-70, cheaply, is to load your own. Full power commercial or what is referred to as level three 45-70 ammunition, is running about $50 a box of twenty. Four forty four Marlin is a bit less than half that amount and is also about the same dollar amount as level one commercial 45-70 ammunitions. Performance wise, both cartridges will be about the same when loaded to their full potential.

There is another option and that is Marlin's new cartridge. Performance of this 450M cartridge is about the same as the 444 and 45-70 (level three), but at roughly the same cost as 444 Ammunition.

Robert
 
Welcome CMR

I did a search for this common topic and came up with a few results. Click on the blue "Search" icon at the top of the page. If you enter

444 AND 45-70

as the keywords and then click on search, you will be presented with some results dealing with your topic.

Nice having you on the forums.
 
.444 might be better

The .444 might be better for the kind of game you mention. The bullets will tend to be a notch smaller. A 240 grain (essentially the same used in a .44 Magnum) won't have the same impact on game as a 405 or 430 grain monster. The "level 3" .45-70's are basically hyper-accelerated shotgun slugs.

Also, I suspect you'll get a bit less of a rainbow trajectory with a .444. It's less like an artillery piece.
 
According to Speer #13:

444 Marlin:

240 gr @ 2355 fps = 2,955 ft/lbs
270 gr @ 2211 fps = 2,931 ft/lbs
300 gr @ 2211 fps = 3,256 ft/lbs

45-70 (Lever Action)

400 gr @ 1,870 fps = 3,106 ft/lbs
Garrett ammo:
420 gr @ 1,850 fps = 3,192 ft/lbs
540 gr @ 1,550 fps = 2,881 ft/ls


They seem to be about equal in power, with the .444 getting the obvious nod in trajectory. In sheer bullet weight the 45-70 gets the nod (But it pays a penalty in speed for that weight).

With the 45-70 you will have to buy expensive Buffalo Bore or Garrett ammo to get the performance you want.

For deer, elk, and black bear I'd chose the .444 marlin as you'll have a longer effective range and will be able to make better use of the energy in that size animal.

Kilgor

BTW I added the Garrett loads in because Speer #13 only listed that one load for Lever actions. They do have some other loads for weak trapdoor springfields or .45-70 single shots like the Ruger #1.
 
BTW, I'm sure you know this, but just in case wanted to point out.

The .444 marlin used .429" diameter bullets and the .45-70 uses .458". Thus a 300 gran .444 bulet will have a much beter sectional density (penetration) and ballistic coeffiecient (streamlined) than a 300 grain 45-70.

If I'm telling you stuff you already know, sorry.
:D
Kilgor
 
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