44 SPL defense load - XTP or LSWC ?

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georgiacatweazle

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I bought a Charter Arms 44 Special Bulldog last week. Took it to the range today with 6.5gr Unique under 240gr bayou coated lead.
Shot really good, 7-10 yards 1 1/4" groups. recoil was heavy as to be expected, but manageable.

So, I need to figure whether to load up defensive loads with Hornady 240 XTP or bayou 240gr lead.
components I have are the bayou's, XTP's, magnum and standard primers. powders - unique, w231, imr 4227, bullseye.
unless someone has other bullets that would work well at a 10-15 yard engagement distance. also looking to build out a hiking load for 4 legged threats.

i was thinking of reducing the loading by 2/10th to cut the recoil just a smidge and maybe tighten the groups.

Any suggestions based on experience vs third hand uncle bob theories ?
 
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I used the 44 Special quite a bit some years back. The closest thing to a reliable JHP at the time was CCI 200 grain Blazer load with the 200 grain Gold Dot. I shot two deer injured in accidents with it. In both cases the JHP pinched partially closed, on a rib I assume, and an unexpanded bullet was recovered from the deer. Not a confidence builder.

I would load a SWC with the largest meplat I could find.
 
I was looking at some ft/lbs, the 200 sits around mid 200's. 240gr is around 290 ft/lbs with 6.5gr unique. 7.5gr is going to be a stiff recoiling round with 360 ft/lb. i guess that's what happens when you run stuff through short barrels. still big bullet hitting a two legged varmint isn't something you brush off.
 
i was thinking of reducing the loading by 2/10th to cut the recoil just a smidge and maybe tighten the groups.
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Reducing the powder charge will not necessarily tighten the groups. For instance, Lyman 48 Handbook lists the potentially most accurate loads. I have found that they are usually right. In the instance of the .44 Special using a Lyman 429421 cast bullet, the "potentially most accurate", load is 6.9 of Unique powder, which is the maximum load for that powder and bullet.
 
Foot pounds from a pistol are pixie dust. You put a large caliber hole through somebody within a couple inches of their midline, that is going to get some traction.
 
If you want less recoil, why not try a 180 or 200 grain XTP?
It's still a heavy bullet and may get enough velocity to expand some too.
 
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I haven't tried any 240s in my Bulldog; saving the XTP 240s for the .44 Mag. I did load some 200s, though. The XTP averaged 879 with 8.4 gr PP, the GDHP 874 with 8.6. They pretty much hit where you point.

I have not tested any cast in the Bulldog, but I did run some 200 Meister through a 5 1/2" Blackhawk (44 Spl, not 44 Mag) for 1,100 fps over 8.6 Unique.
Those JHP loads go a bit over 1,000 out of the Blackhawk.

These all fall into Elmer Keith's view of a defensive revolver round, not that he was always right. From my results, I believe any 240 JHP will simply be too slow out of a Bulldog. I need to chrono my Meisters, but I'm guessing 900+ from the Bulldog. A 240 cast may do OK. QL is pretty close on my loads, and using it to extrapolate, 7.5 gr Unique under a cast 240 will exceed SAAMI max by a bit and yield 780 fps. As always, be careful on your workup. I'm staying with 200s.
 
I may try a 200gr and try out 5.3 gr unique doing a 'work-down' charge. may also see what difference there is going 7gr, maybe only 5% recoil difference.
 
FWIW, I've never had a problem just shooting LSWC designs in my 41Mag and 44Mag revolvers, for hunting, range or defensive purposes. I load my 44Mag at about 900fps, using the Hornady 240gr. swaged LSWC-HP and get great performance. Your coated lead SWC's should serve you well.

I do have 500 Hornady XTP's to use up, just because I got them for free with my new press. Once they're gone, I doubt that I'll ever buy more though.
 
For legal purposes, I recommend factory ammo for actual defense (home or carry) applications. But that's another subject, I suppose. So moving forward in this post, I'll talk home-crafted defense loads. (I handload defense ammo too; but I don't actually use them for home/carry.)

I need to figure whether to load up defensive loads with Hornady 240 XTP or bayou 240gr lead.
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If those are the only two choices, the answer is simple: Go with the LSWC. The Hornady 240 XTP is designed for typical Magnum velocities and won't reliably expand from a Bulldog 44 Special (with normal pressured 44 Spl loadings). Hornady's 44 Special defense ammo comes in 165 and 180 grain choices - much lighter for more velocity to expand. That's a clue right there. Between the 240 XTP and a swaged lead (I don't know about Bayou brand, but you need soft lead - not hard cast) SWC, the LSWC may actually have better the terminal ballistics.

I am of the school of thought that expansion is not always necessary for a good defense loading. And thus, I believe that a heavy swaged SWC is a viable defense option.

If expansion is important to you, then I would strongly consider going with Speer's 200gn GDHP SB bullet (Speer #4427). These bullets were specifically designed for the kind of application you're talking about. I'd then go with a fairly fast powder, and steer clear of slow burners that are just going to give you a bunch of muzzle flash and thrust recoil. Keep your load balanced: Go with something like TiteGroup (which is indeed a fast powder, but seems to be on the slower side of the fast powders). AA#2, W231/HP-38, and 700X would all deliver similar results. Bullseye would even get it done, but it's a bit fast.

With the Speer 200gn GDHP SB bullet, of the propellants you mentioned you have, I'd go with W231. Unique is also worthy of consideration. As an intermediate speed powder, it'll probably give you a few more fps, but you'll be dealing with more flash and recoil with your snubby barrel - your choice.

With the heavy 240 LSWC, Unique becomes a more viable option - a pretty good one, actually.

also looking to build out a hiking load for 4 legged threats.
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For this, go with the 240 LSWC. Although a Bulldog 44 Spl isn't the best hiking gun (but that's for another post :p)

I was thinking of reducing the loading by 2/10th to cut the recoil just a smidge and maybe tighten the groups.
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Recoil is a consideration when building a defense load - build your ammo to your comfort level. Tightening the groups however, is not.
 
Nick_C_S - awesome info. i noticed too that the XTP seemed to operate a bit on the low side. Also any SD ammo will be trickle charged on to a balance beam for maximum weight accuracy.
i have W231 as of last month for loading 45 acp so i'll sift through all the load data i have in manuals to see whats viable. i think speer hp is on sale right now at midway, i'll take another look-see.
 
FWIW, if you guys are looking for expansion from the XTP at slower speeds in a 44 caliber then you should probably be looking at the 180gr and 200gr. Their performance window is built to expand at slower speeds: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/catalog/2009/19-22_bullets_handgun.pdf

Looks like starting right around 750 fps for both of them...

P.S. I use the 158gr in 38/357 loads. But not because I'm big on a hollowpoint which may or may not expand, they just load better should I ever need to reload in a hurry. I'm a bigger fan of accuracy and putting the bullet where it belongs, so I'm fine with big meplat or JHP at reasonable, controllable speeds for a defensive load. I have found the XTP to be pretty consistently accurate in several revolvers. So it has that going for it...

P.P.S. Since you mention hiking and four legged varmints, I'd look at a WFN or Keith bullet for that. Maybe something like this at about 900-1000 fps? http://rimrockbullets.net/44-keith-260-gr-swc-fb-per-500.html
 
I have W231 as of last month . . . so i'll sift through all the load data i have in manuals to see whats viable.
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With W231, Speer #14 has it from 6.0 to 6.9 grains; velocity through a 5.5" bbl yielded 730 and 886 f/s respectively. Through your Bulldog, I'd say you're going to give up a sizable chunk of 100 f/s.

As suspected, TiteGroup performs a little better. 700X did well too - no surprise either. The velocity champ is Power Pistol (remember 5.5" bbl); but believe me, you'll have a flashy mess on your hands with Power Pistol. Not only is it too slow for a snubby, but it's also a flashy propellant by nature to begin with. A huge flame plume would be a certainty.

All that said, W231 is a strong performer for your application; and if I was in your position, the propellant choice would be a no-brainer (W231).

I think speer hp is on sale right now at midway,
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I strongly recommend this bullet (200gn GDHP SB #4427). And they're usually fairly available. I bought 500 of them during the peak of the shortage. I only loaded about 40 or so for testing with 44 Magnum - using W231, btw. Results were literally too good as I got way more than the needed velocity for proper expansion. I spare you all the data, as it doesn't pertain. Point is, it's really a bullet designed for 44 Special performance and not actually meant for 44 Magnum. I haven't gotten around to testing them with 44 Special; but when I do, I'll be using either TiteGroup or W231.
 
The 200 grain .44 Gold Dot is a good sturdy bullet. I pulled some from 44 Specials and loaded them hot from the 44 Mag and fired them into soaked phone books. They were expanding right down the the base but there was always some jacket remaining on it. This was long ago of course and I didn't have a chronorgraph yet; but 1400+ would be in the ballpark.

I came away impressed and wishing I had a 444 Marlin to play with.
 
If it is a hard choice between the two options the go with the SWC for reasons already stated.

As far as 4 legged critter defense, unless you have a real threat of 400 lb.+ bruins, the following is where I would go and it especially applies to 2 legged critters.

Use a SWAGED 240 gr. HP SWC like a Hornady. You won't be driving it fast enough to lead up your barrel, it will obturate at these lower pressures for better accuracy and they will expand at these lower velocities. Read up on 38+p LSWCHP and you will understand my reasoning.
 
I've tried 180 and 200gr. cast in my 18 oz. 396 Smith, but I'm settling on a 240 gr. full wadcutter @ around 700fps, but thinking a swaged 240 gr. would be a good idea. Pure lead expands nicely.
 
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