.44 Magnum and .454 Casull

S

Southern Shooter

New member
If you have a .44 Magnum and a .454 Casull, both with 4" barrels, both weighing about the same...ballpark 43 ounces, both shooting the same weight cast lead bullet of 240 grains, and both shooting these 240 grain bullets at 1,200 FPS:

Which revolver would kick the hardest? How would the recoils of each gun compare to the other?

Thanks
 
In theory, there shouldn't be any difference.
But other things come into play, like grip thickness and angle, trigger reach, for example.
 
A 240 grainer at 1200 doesn't kick much at all, get whichever one you prefer. I'd bet dollars to donuts the 44 mag would be more accurate.
 
Physics will give you a headache but chances are good that the shooter would never feel a difference.
The 454 gun would weigh a wee tiny bit less and likely have more powder burning due to case volume. Those two things add up to more recoil but you probably won't feel it.

Why use the 454? I regularly exceed that level in my 45 Colts.

Don't start on accuracy. That's all up to the shooter. However, the 429 would have a flatter trajectory assuming similar bullet profiles.
 
Well, if you remember your physics class in high school or college .... recoil will be the same. As said above, if different gun then it may be perceived differently depending : "...other things come into play, like grip thickness and angle, trigger reach, etc". Now change velocity, or change bullet weight, and yes they will be different.
 
Do you have one or the other already? If not which are you REALLY looking the hardest at, and what is your main goal for it?

To be honest the recoil is going to roughly the same other than the itmes already stated by g.willikers above.

I have a Ruger Redhawk in both 44 and 45 Colt 7 1/2" barrels, as well as one of the Taurus Raging Bulls with an 8 3/8" barrel on it. That said, loading them all to the same velocities, but using slightly heavier 250gr bullets, my perception is that the 45 Colt recoil feels like the most. I don't know why with the Redhawk's, I certainly know why with the Bull. Heck it weighs a bunch. LOL

Then again recoil doesn't mess with me much anyway, so it will depend more on you, and how you perceive it. In general though it shouldn't be much to deal with.
 
Heavier bullet weight

If the bullet weights were increased to both being 320 grain cast lead and everything else also kept equal including the velocities of 1,200 FPS...Would one start to notice a difference in the recoil, then?
 
If the bullet weights were increased to both being 320 grain cast lead and everything else also kept equal including the velocities of 1,200 FPS...Would one start to notice a difference in the recoil, then?
Click to expand...

Nope. Remember the physics lesson - every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The force required to push ANY same sized bullet at the same velocity out of those essentially equal guns will result in the same opposite reaction. You'll only notice a recoil difference when you change a variable in one gun but not the other.
 
Ah, but grasshopper, the 45 would have lower pressure than the 44 with the same projectile @ the same velocity, thus it should recoil a little less.
 
Assuming the absence of things like muzzle brakes or barrel porting, free recoil or recoil velocity is based exclusively on the momentum of the ejecta and the mass of the firearm in question.

The ejecta is everything that exits the muzzle (unburned powder, combustion gases & bullet). Momentum is mass times velocity.

So (again excluding things like muzzle brakes and porting), if you have two similar firearms of the same weight shooting the same weight bullet at the same velocity, you will have the same free recoil unless there's a significant difference in the amount or velocity of the unburned powder and/or combustion gases.

Pressure may change the character/feel of the recoil, but it doesn't change the actual free recoil/recoil velocity value unless it significantly changes the velocity of the ejecta other than the bullet.
 
IMO... In theory, they should be very close...

however, actually I'd think the 44 would kick more, because if the bullets were the same weight, & cartridges loaded to the same pressures, there would be more bullet in contact with the barrel on the .429" bullet than on the .452" bullet of equal weights... imparting more force to the gun

& BTW... the 454 revolver would have to have weight added to it, because the difference between the 2 cartridges is actually very measurable, & there were be a fair amount of difference in the weight of the barrels & cylinders... where the weight was added to the 454 would matter... if the barrel profile & cylinder profiles were increased, it would be closer to Apples to Apples, but the frame wouldn't likely be the same weight to accommodate the bigger barrel & cylinder...
 
Ah, but grasshopper, the 45 would have lower pressure than the 44 with the same projectile @ the same velocity, thus it should recoil a little less.
Click to expand...

Only enough to be measured by the most delicate of machines - certainly not enough for a shooter to notice.
 
nanuk said:
Ah, but grasshopper, the 45 would have lower pressure than the 44 with the same projectile @ the same velocity, thus it should recoil a little less.
Click to expand...

I take it that you believe that my old Schaum's Mechanical Engineering Handbbok is incorrect by not including the pressure in the recoil example problem 20.30?

(Hint: As JohnKSA stated, pressure is an INTERNAL force and has no effect on recoil except for the minuscule effect of the velocity of the gas/powder ejecta)

rp-1.jpg
 
discussed last night

I was talking with a buddy about my (now-gone) 5.5" Redhawk collection, one in each chambering.

I found the 41 'felt' stiffer than the 44, and the 44 'felt' stiffer than the 45.
The 357 didn't count :D


JohnKSa had it right.
 
The 357 didn't count
Click to expand...

A 180 grain .357 mag out of a 4" barreled gun @ ~ 1200 fps has a very significant felt recoil.

I wouldn't care to push a 200 grain that fast out of the same gun for too many shots.
I doubt there's enough room in the case to load a 240 grain

A 250 grain .45LC out of a similar 4" barreled gun @ ~ 1200 fps has no where near the felt recoil.

There has to be more to the story than what's been listed so far, otherwise the .357 mag., with a lighter bullet in a similar gun, would have less recoil.
In the "real world" though, that's just not the case. That load has significantly more felt recoil.
 
Originally posted by Hal:

A 180 grain .357 mag out of a 4" barreled gun @ ~ 1200 fps has a very significant felt recoil.

I wouldn't care to push a 200 grain that fast out of the same gun for too many shots.
I doubt there's enough room in the case to load a 240 grain

A 250 grain .45LC out of a similar 4" barreled gun @ ~ 1200 fps has no where near the felt recoil.

There has to be more to the story than what's been listed so far, otherwise the .357 mag., with a lighter bullet in a similar gun, would have less recoil.
In the "real world" though, that's just not the case. That load has significantly more felt recoil.
Click to expand...

I think you summed it up well with the remark......"felt recoil". Many .357s are lighter than .45 Colts revolvers, and many times grips are smaller. Many claim recoil is different outta a SA frame .45 Colt(because of grip angle) than from a conventional .357 DA frame. I always look at "felt recoil" similar to "wind chill". While ambient temps may be the same, add a stout wind and it sure as 'ell feels a lot colder.
 
Ah, but grasshopper, the 45 would have lower pressure than the 44 with the same projectile @ the same velocity, thus it should recoil a little less.
Click to expand...
As John said
Pressure may change the character/feel of the recoil, but it doesn't change the actual free recoil/recoil velocity value unless it significantly changes the velocity of the ejecta other than the bullet.
Click to expand...
So in actuality the smaller case volume higher pressure combination would allow you to use slightly less powder so the 44 would have less recoil in that case.
but you're still going to nee sensative test equipment to tell.
 
You can get (or create) equal weight guns. You can use equal weight bullets, But, because you are comparing different size cases, and different size bores, you can have either velocity, pressure, or powder charge weight equal, but not ALL of them.

so, you cannot make the two of them completely equal. With them being as equal as you can make them (but not completely equal in all things, that's impossible), there is a difference in recoil that could be calculated.

I don't believe the difference can be felt by the shooter, it will be a difference, yes, but an insignificant one.
 
sounds like oneamy sissy IPSC loads

I was discussing the comparisons amongst my 5.5" Redhawks.

I also have a pair of 4" GP100s.




I have a 7.5" 357 Redhawk, too, and I've used my 180g 'hunting' load --which significantly beats "1200fps"-- in it for USPSA competition ('cause it's all I had with me).
 
I take it that you believe that my old Schaum's Mechanical Engineering Handbbok is incorrect by not including the pressure in the recoil example problem 20.30?
Click to expand...

:confused:I was just regurgitating what the 45 Colt fans always tell me. I prefer the 44 mag myself.:p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top