44 mag vs 454 Casull

C

cordesr1

New member
Looking for a new Michigan deer rifle. I live and do most of my hunting in our southern( what was) shotgun zone. I've used my fathers Rossi 92 this year and would like to buy something for myself but with more punch. I see the ballistic difference.

Does anyone have either the 92 in 44 or 454? Pros? Cons? Ammo cost aside. Regrets?
 
I had a Rossi 92 in .454 for a while. With a little slicking up, it was a great little gun.

I never fired a .454 round through it, but I did put plenty of .45 loads down range that would rival low end Casull rounds, generally a 300 grain bullet at around 12-1300 fps.

It had plenty of thump with those, at both ends, but it wasn't unbearable. The rifle was a joy to carry. It wasn't a long range target gun, but was plenty accurate for marauding beer cans out to 50-75 yards.

I will say that the factory sights are not great, and I replaced mine with modified Skinner receiver sight mounted to the top of the bolt, where the factory safety used to sit. My rifle was drilled and tapped under the rear sight for a forward scope mount, which I always thought would be perfect for something like an Aimpoint Micro or a Trijicon RMR.

I eventually sold it for the same reason I sold the .45-70 that it had replaced. For my purposes it was too much gun. Even downloaded, it gave complete pass throughs on everything I ever shot. Plus, you're throwing lead away 250-300 grains at a time. Now I shoot a .32-20, and I'm down to 85-110 grains per bullet, but that won't do for your Michigan deer.
 
The .44 magnum carbine is no slouch

The .454 will bring you more thump(on both ends) and a flatter trajectory.

A '92 in .45 Colt with modest handloads will rival the .44 mag and make for a dandy truck or short range deer rifle.
I can vouch for how easy they are to carry. Mine weighs just shy of 6 lbs empty.
 
Prior to Michigan passing a bill allowing us to use some rifles in the southern zone i was set on buying the savage 220 Slug Gun. I hunt a lot of open areas and grew up hunting wide open prairie of south east Montana where 400 yd shots were common.

Realistically i would like to have a rifle to use down south here that is 200 yd capable. As flat as possible.

.35 or larger
Max case length 1.8
Must be straight walled.
 
The problem is what can you handle and how much do you want to spend and will spending x amount give you any advantage for a deer gun.

Would a model 94 in .44 magnum be enough because if you like a rolling block you could really go to over kill with a .45-120.

States that have such stupid limits I have to wonder how stupid those are that enacted the legislation.
 
Just thinking out loud here, and getting pretty far off in the weeds from the original post...

But, given the restrictions you describe, what about a Ruger 77/357 using Hornady's Leverloution ammo, or it's hand loaded equivalent?

Or if you want to really get out there, take a Handi Rifle in .357, run a Maximum reamer in it, then load .357 Max brass with 200-250 grain .357 spire points.

I would think either of these options, esp. The Handi Rifle, would give you plenty of accuracy and energy out to 200 yards, while still meeting legal requirements.
 
.44 Mag ammo is everywhere. Casull is not. Neither of 'em are 200 yard cartridges though. 100 for sure, but not 200. Energy of big bullets out of handgun cartridges drops too fast.
Handgun cartridges the only option?
 
Unless you plan on hunting 1000 lb brown bear the 44 mag is more than enough gun. A lot cheaper, less recoil and your life will be a lot simpler.
 
With the Casull the 92 becomes ballistically an 1886 Win in 45-90...maybe even a little better.I don't have the numbers handy.
But,agreed,velocity will drop quickly ,trajectory will rainbow.It will still punch a hole at 200 yds,no doubt!! But shot placement will be a challenge.

I would look carefully at cartridge overall length,and what is the max length the rifle will reliably feed.A tie up of a 92 caused by too long of a cartridge is unpleasant to clear.Pulling the mag tube cap is one method.Look at what bullets you intend to use.You will need to ue the crimp ring at a COAL that will feed.

Look very close at how the mag tube is attached to the receiver,barrel,etc and the durability of the forend.All of that was adequately designed for the cartridges of the day.There is no comparison to the recoil they will have to endure.

I'm not saying these features may not have been upgraded.I do not know.We would hope so.

One more item to consider.The rim OD on a .44 mag is essentially the same as on a 45 Colt.Thats no issue on a six shooter with an ejector rod.All the rim has to do is headspace.
But if an extractor has to pull a cartridge out of a chamber...the .44 Mag has a better rim.

I love the IDEA of the .454,but it could be the .44 Mag will be more practical from a longevity/reliability point of view.But,I have not messed with one.

I turned a Browning 92 carbine into an octagon barrel,crescent butt 92 rifle.Its beautiful!My silly mind tinkered with the idea of a modernized 44-40.Necking the .454 Casull down to .44.Hmmmm...Thought about it.Thats why I looked at all the stuff I pointed out.Decided the .44 was enough.I did not like the small rim thing.
Laser-Cast 300 gr .44 bullets work in the 92.
 
I am in IN and have the same restrictions. I built a 357max Encore 24in rifle. I had a deep throat cut to allow rifle bullets seated way out of the case allowing for more powder space. Using a 200gr Hdy ftx only seated .2 into the case, I am still not touching the rifling. This allows 32gr AA1680 to be used with a Win small rifle primer. Speed is 2350fps and it knocks the crap out of deer. Trajectory is 3in high at 100yd, dead on at 200yd, and 5in low at 250yd, and very accurate. This year I used the 140gr ftx with 31gr h110 at almost 3k fps. Took one rib shot at 60yd, 50yd run, and 2neck shots, 30 and 100yd, both drt but no exits. Did not even find any pieces of bullet, just disintegrated, but OK with me because accuracy is most important. That load shoots 2in groups at 200yd. Very happy with gun and performance. I loan gun out for youth hunts to god kids and their dad, I bet it has killed 25 deer now in 5yrs. Now IN is going to allow high power rifles in 2015, so this gun will be put away except for the kiddos. PM me if you need any more info. Also a big plus that you can shoot 38sp and 357mag in same gun for practice to save money and hunting components.

Jay
 
Savage 220?

I'd like to comment on post #6.
I have the Savage 220 bolt action.
And sure, I'd like to use a "rifle" here and now since we can.
But to be honest, I have not come up with one that can out-shoot or out-kill a deer any better than my scoped Savage bolt action rifled barrel with Hornady SST ammo.
I have to watch my spending. So already having that Savage model 220, I just cannot claim any real need for a pistol cartridge rifle.
 
I have a rossi 92 in 44 mag in a 16" carbine and it will probably drop anything on the planet with the right shot. I have shot the hottest loads that I've put through my super blackhawk and the difference is night and day--what pounds my wrists in a handgun is very tame in the little carbine--which also sends them faster and flatter--MOA at 100 is easy with the right load. And 44 mag is VERY easy to find at a store if you forget your handloads at home (which I did this season). My rossi weighs 4.8 lbs and is very handy and quick to acquire in heavy brush. The only drawback to them is their QC can be sketchy--sorta like Marlins these days. Once I fixed mine up--no way I'd ever sell it!
 
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Good to hear they're finally giving my family in the south of michigan some wiggle room on rifles. Never had to worry about that in the U.P.

Good luck in your search. I've shot the 444 Marlin and it gets addicting. To bad that's a bit longer than you're allowed but maybe some day it will open up a bit more.
 
20" Rossi in .44 mag here. I replaced the safety with a peep sight from Steve Gunz. Don't know much about the .454, except that I've never seen any ammo on the shelf at my local Walmart.
 
I'm not sure--but my guess is that the 454 could be loaded down to 45lc. If you absolutely have to have maximum megaton warhead capability in a lever-gun--you might want to consider a 45-70 gov. Though the brass is hard to find it's been around a very long time and can be loaded up and down from mild to wild. Marlin has a spectacular new one in stainless with what looks like boyd's wood stock and forend and comes with both irons and top picatany scope-ready. I've stopped visiting my LGS cause that baby calls out to me every time I'm there. : )
 
stagpanther,
His area only allows the brass casing to be 1.8 inches long. That puts 45-70 and 444 marlin out. Not to far north of him he can use whatever he wants but this is a big deal in his area as it has been a shotgun zone for a long time.
 
My biggest factor is shooting cost. That is the only reason I have avoided the 220 for a couple years. Hornady sst's at $2-$3 a boom is too much. I don't do well with letting a gun sit all year. I love to shoot. I run 200-300 rounds through my 300 win a year. I reload everything but slugs it's not cost effective.

My thoughts were something reloadable is the key. And that brass length rule of 1.8" really puts a damper on things. I grew up hunting Montana so big guns and long distances are what I enjoy hunting.
 
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