44 Mag cast bullets coming out to small?

C

Chainsaw.

New member
So I have a lyman nould for 44 mag. Im casting bullets from wheel weight lead. 44 mag should come out to 429. 430. Or 431 If im not mistaken. But im getting 428...? Now I am BRAND NEW to casting so Im sure Im doinh something wrong, I jist have no idea what.

The number for the nould shows it should throw a .430
 
Your thread will probably be transferred to the experts at Bullet Casting. It may be that you just might have an undersized mold. I cast at around 750 degrees with wheel weights and find that bullets may drop undersized if temperature is not maintained or when first heating up. You may be able to squeeze out a little more bullet diameter by increasing the casting temperature if not at the proper temperature you are using. But my guess is that the mold is undersized.
 
Lyman molds are designed to drop bullets at the specified diameter only when using the alloy specified by Lyman.
In the case of .44 Mag bullets, that alloy is known as Lyman #2. It doesn't shrink as much as wheel weight alloy, which causes a problem for a lot of people...


One way to try to "fudge" the numbers a bit is to cast with a nicely warmed mold, but the alloy as cool as you can get it without getting crystal formations.
Cold alloy doesn't shrink as much as hot alloy.
Warm molds have slightly larger cavities than cool molds. (Generally - there are some freakish exceptions.)

Pour fast with the spout contacting the sprue plate, and be sure to leave a good puddle on the sprue plate.


Might work.
Might not.
But it's worth trying, since that's your best bet at getting the mold to work, short of putting together some Lyman #2 (which is too hard for most cast bullet shooters' tastes - I don't even use alloys that hard for most rifle bullets).
 
+1 Frankenmauser.

I either cast a combination of 50% lead, 50% linotype, at about 650-680 degrees, or 20 to 1 at 700-725 degrees in my Saeco moulds that call for taracorp alloy. If you haven't bought one yet, the Lyman thermometer has temperature ranges for various alloys printed on its face to help the caster find a good range for his alloy. Oddly, the harder alloys pour well at lower temperatures.

Just recently I had to return a 45-70 Lyman mould that cast 4 thousandths out of round and I no longer remember how much too small. I prefer to have bullets cast just a little large to be sized down than to be cast too small.

Was a day when Lyman moulds were the cat's meow. I think maybe that day has passed, sadly. I am lucky to have lived in those halcyon days of Lyman moulds. There are a number of custom mould makers whose products will do exactly what you want, and they aren't all that much more expensive, at least when you take into account the aggravation of a product that doesn't do what you want it to do for you, using your alloys. NOE and Accurate are a couple that come to mind, I'm sure there are others. Heck, sometimes you will strike it rich on Lee moulds too, but again that's a crapshoot.
 
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The number for the mould shows it should throw a .430
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Q1. Which Lyman mould (#) are you using?

Q2. What gun are you shooting it from ?

Q3. Have you measured/slugged the cylinder throats ? (the undersized problem may be moot if it's a Ruger and the throats are undersize)

Finally: Stubbie mentioned "Accurate Molds"
See http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=8
You get exactly what you order.
They are the cat's meow.
;)
 
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That diameter is just about perfect for the 44-40, AKA, 44 WCF. Is it a 200 grain RNFP?
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That depends largely on which gun you are shooting the ammo in. Ruger seems to use the same barrels in their .44-40 revolvers as they use in their .44Magnums.
 
Best advice I can give is to invest a little in a good thermometer. The one that NOE sells is plenty good and will help you more than you know. Lead Thermometer

You can startt low and work up in small increments of 10-20 degrees until you hit a sweet spot that throws what your looking for. If your using a Lee pot the lower the alloy gets the hotter it will also get so you will have to monitor the temp and either load in more lead when it gets to around half empty or start watching the temp and backing down on the temp knob. The best route is a PID controller which lets you set it and forget it until the pot is empty. You can build your own for about $80 or less depending on how you go about it or purchase one for around $100. Once you use one though, you will never want to NOT use one.

Usually the hotter you pour the smaller the bullets are especially with WW alloy as , like mentioned, it will shrink a touch. I usually preheat my molds on a small hot plate to around 275-300 degrees'ish, then go for it. I might get one or two pours of culls but the mold will warm up to temp quicker and I hit the sweetspot easier. Most of the solidfs I pour I run in the 675-710 range and for my HP's I have to bump it up into the 725-740 range depending on which mold it is. Smaller cavities maintain heat less than larger ones due because of the smaller amount of alloy your pouring. You have to make up for this by either pouring at a crazy rate or run things a touch hotter, or both sometimes.

This is where the thermometer comes in handy. Once you find the sweet spot jot down the temp and you can usually expect equal results the next time you pour.
 
You can go to a harder alloy-harder alloys weigh less and have larger diameters.
What size are the cylinder's throats? The bullet should be a snug slip-fit and, believe me, throats and groove diameters do vary.
Have you tried some as-cast and tumble-lubed bullets just to see how they perform? I use LLA on undersized bullets and it almost always eliminates almost all leading.
Call Lyman and discuss it with them.
 
when bullet come out small I usually add a bit of tin to the mix. Usually don't take much. I use 95/5 percent lead free soldier which is 95 percent tin and depending on which you buy, 5 percent silver to 5 percent copper. I use the type with silver. I start with a 3 foot piece, mix swell and cast a few after the mold is heated up. Might have to add a bit more until you get proper mold fill out but that usually works. Another way is get some 50/50 bar solder and and a few inches to the mix, do some test acting and add a bit more if needed. I prefer my .44 bullets to be at least .430" and for one gun .431 is much better. Just depends on what your groove diameter and cylinder throats measure out too. I just settled on .431 for everything. Works for me anyway.
Another thought is if you have some, add about a pound of linotype to the mix. That'll work too.
Paul B.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned beagling your mold yet. Use the search function for a full description of how it's done.

Another option is to get some valve grinding compound, cast a few bullets, put a small bolt in the bullet (I drill mine and thread in the bolt some cast the bolt into the bullet) coat the bullet with the grinding compound, place the bullet back in the mold (the same cavity it came out of) and wile holding the mold shut spin the bullet using a nut driver or whatever you have. It don't take long to add a couple thousandths so don't overdo it. Once I get the dia I want I go back and repeat the same process with a polishing compound, that's not necessary but the bullets will durn near fall out of the mold afterwards.

I got a 2 cav lee mold that dropped .429 to drop .433 in about a 2 hours, that includes casting the bullets used for grinding.;)

BTW, in my experience you want a dia of at least .431. My SBH likes .432 and my H&R likes .434, luckily my NOE drops at .434 using an alloy of 95/3/2 lead/tin/antimony.
 
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned beagling your mold yet. Use the search function for a full description of how it's done.
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Oblong bullets won't fix the problem, they'll just require sizing.

Without lapping, that mold isn't likely to drop bullets that will make the OP happy. And, being a Lyman mold, it's not likely to take too kindly to lapping attempts.


I still think a hot mold (not too hot) and the coolest alloy you can cast with is the best bet.
Beyond that... a different mold is the only option that makes sense (to me).
 
As you can see from the previous posts, finished bullet size can vary a few thousandths of an inch due to alloy, and temperature of the melt and the mold...

I don't mind experimenting with different alloys ot temperatures so I'll play with a mold and make notes about each mold's preferences. I have found that temperatures can make my boolits vary up to .003"...
 
Best advice I can give is to invest a little in a good thermometer.
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This was the most important single piece of advice I've ever been given with regard to casting. It was also good advice for roasting and barbequeing, and I use the same thermometer for all of them:



Stick with it, it's worth it.

Finally, if you're pleased with the bullets, I wouldn't go too crazy with concern about them being .429". Personally, I'd certainly be loading and shooting some of them, at least, long before I'd throw them all back in the pot. You could find they shoot just fine.
 
Oblong bullets won't fix the problem, they'll just-CENSORED-require-CENSORED-sizing.
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That was always my take on beagling, but it seems to be an excepted means of "opening" a mold by others. That's why I brought it up. It just seems like that's one of the first suggestions in "how do I I increase my bullets diameter". I was just surprised, that's all.

Steel molds take longer to heat up and wheel weights tend to cast small without adding tin in my experience. Lapping should work but will take longer with steel then my aluminum molds, possibly a lot longer. I was simply offering another option if all else fails.

To the OP, definitely try different alloys with a hotter mold before attempting to modify the mold. Always eliminate one thing at a time, and DON'T TRY TO SHOOT AN UNDER SIZED CAST BULLET IT WILL LEAD YOUR BARREL SOMETHING FIERCE. You want at least .001 over grove dia, fit is king all else is second.
 
Thanks alot guys. I will invest in a thermometer toot sweet. At which point maybe Ill start playing with the alloy. Got alot to learn!
 
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