.44-40 & .45 Colt
- Thread starter Steel
- Start date
45 Colt was the most popular (or at least most commonly made) chambering of the Colt Peacemaker.
Lever Action rifles from the cowboy era were not chambered for 45 Colt as far as I know. Modern replicas have been, but not the originals.
44-40 was commonly chambered in the Lever guns, as well as handguns. This made it attractive because both your handgun and long gun could use the same ammo.
And yes, I think both emerged at about the same time, in early 1870's.
Lever Action rifles from the cowboy era were not chambered for 45 Colt as far as I know. Modern replicas have been, but not the originals.
44-40 was commonly chambered in the Lever guns, as well as handguns. This made it attractive because both your handgun and long gun could use the same ammo.
And yes, I think both emerged at about the same time, in early 1870's.
.44 WCF (.44-40) is older than .45 Colt. The lever guns were not available back then in .45 Colt (in fact they can be a problem today as the rim on the .45 Colt is almost too small for reliable extraction in most levers - My replica M92 works fine, but you have to give a good snap to the lever when opening to ensure that the old case will clear the gun). The .44-40 is probably better (action wise) in the lever guns but reloading it is a pain (no carbide dies for a start since it is a bottlenecked - sort of - cartridge).
Mike Irwin
Staff
SW627,
Actually, both the .45 Colt and the .44-40 hit the market the same year, 1873, the .45 Colt in the Peacemaker and the .44-40 in the Winchester 1873 lever action.
I suspect that by 1880, given that the .44-40 was avaible in both Winchester rifles and Colt revolvers that it was as popular, if not more so, than the .45 Colt round, at least with those who didn't want to carry two types of ammunition around.
Actually, both the .45 Colt and the .44-40 hit the market the same year, 1873, the .45 Colt in the Peacemaker and the .44-40 in the Winchester 1873 lever action.
I suspect that by 1880, given that the .44-40 was avaible in both Winchester rifles and Colt revolvers that it was as popular, if not more so, than the .45 Colt round, at least with those who didn't want to carry two types of ammunition around.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Ronin,
Yep, it's the same .44-40 as was chambered in the 1873 Peacemaker and Winchester rifle.
S&W has made a number of revolvers chambered in .44-40:
New Model No. 3 Frontier single action
.44 Double Action (1886 until about 1913)
.44 Hand Ejector First Model (the famed Triple Lock)
.44 Hand Ejector Second Model & Third Model
Model 544 Texas Wagon Train Commemorative (7,800 made, 1986)
Yep, it's the same .44-40 as was chambered in the 1873 Peacemaker and Winchester rifle.
S&W has made a number of revolvers chambered in .44-40:
New Model No. 3 Frontier single action
.44 Double Action (1886 until about 1913)
.44 Hand Ejector First Model (the famed Triple Lock)
.44 Hand Ejector Second Model & Third Model
Model 544 Texas Wagon Train Commemorative (7,800 made, 1986)
Mike,
You might have mentioned that the .44 WCF was NOT a standard chambering in any of those guns. They all came in it, but examples (particularly in good condition) are worth a premium today. The M544 is about the only "affordable" .44-40 Smith you're going to find (and it isn't going to be real cheap).
You might have mentioned that the .44 WCF was NOT a standard chambering in any of those guns. They all came in it, but examples (particularly in good condition) are worth a premium today. The M544 is about the only "affordable" .44-40 Smith you're going to find (and it isn't going to be real cheap).
Mike Irwin
Staff
SW627,
There were over 15,000 .44 Double Action Frontier models made. That was the only caliber that the Frontier DA came in. I'd say that qualifies as standard.
There were lesser quantities of the other older guns manufactured, and .44-40 was was a standard chambering for those Smith revolvers in that the factory offered it as part of the regular caliber line-up and not just as a special order, "call us and maybe we'll get around to cutting the chambers" order item.
It's the same as with the Colt Peacemaker. It was offered in .32-20 or even .476 Eley as "standard" chamberings. You don't see them that often today, as there weren't nearly as many made as the "traditional" chamberings, but you still find them.
As to price, quite frankly, the cost of a New Model No 3. isn't that much different from the price on a Peacemaker of the same vintage. The same is true of a Colt New Service as compred to a Triple Lock.
There were over 15,000 .44 Double Action Frontier models made. That was the only caliber that the Frontier DA came in. I'd say that qualifies as standard.
There were lesser quantities of the other older guns manufactured, and .44-40 was was a standard chambering for those Smith revolvers in that the factory offered it as part of the regular caliber line-up and not just as a special order, "call us and maybe we'll get around to cutting the chambers" order item.
It's the same as with the Colt Peacemaker. It was offered in .32-20 or even .476 Eley as "standard" chamberings. You don't see them that often today, as there weren't nearly as many made as the "traditional" chamberings, but you still find them.
As to price, quite frankly, the cost of a New Model No 3. isn't that much different from the price on a Peacemaker of the same vintage. The same is true of a Colt New Service as compred to a Triple Lock.
The .44 DA Frontier was made in numbers (and in .44-40 only), but is still pretty rare. The New Model #3 Frontier (also only in .44-40) was only made for 2,072 pieces - quite rare. The various HE models listed were offered in a number of calibers, with .44 S&W Special being the "standard" caliber. Every book I've ever seen assigns a premium of 75 to 100% for any of these in ANY other caliber than .44 Special. Colt Peacemakers in calibers other than .44-40 and .45 Colt normally bring premiums as well. Since ALL of them are out of MY price range I just look at them and drool a bit. The M544 is priced low enough that I'm able to own one, and willing to shoot it. I have this problem, I'm not that much on collecting, I like to shoot the guns I own. I have one non-shooter, but it was given to me. (Colt 1849 Pocket Model - boy did they have BIG pockets back then!)
Mike Irwin
Staff
627,
I think we've just got a difference of opinion on what qualifies as a "standard" caliber.
I look at standard calibers, regardless of their inherent rarity, as those that were cataloged/advertised by the company for a particular model of gun, as opposed to a special order caliber that wasn't cataloged.
An S&W New Model No. 3 in .32-20 or .22 Long Rifle (I've seen both) would possibly qualify as a factory special order. I'm pretty certain that the .22 was, but I just don't know about the .32-20.
A few years ago I saw a VERY (outside) nice Frotier Double Action at a gunshow. Asking price was $750, but then realized that the timing was shot (hand was sheared off) and the bore was badly pitted, probably the result of being fired with corrosive ammo & not cleaned.
Having the hand fixed would have been at least $100.
Just a difference in the way of looking at it, I guess.
A guy I know in Canada just bought himself a very nice Second Model Hand Ejector in .455 Webley Mk I.
Down here in the states such a gun would likely go for $700 or more.
He paid the obscene sum of $265 CANADIAN for it, or about $175 US.
I want to cry...
I think we've just got a difference of opinion on what qualifies as a "standard" caliber.
I look at standard calibers, regardless of their inherent rarity, as those that were cataloged/advertised by the company for a particular model of gun, as opposed to a special order caliber that wasn't cataloged.
An S&W New Model No. 3 in .32-20 or .22 Long Rifle (I've seen both) would possibly qualify as a factory special order. I'm pretty certain that the .22 was, but I just don't know about the .32-20.
A few years ago I saw a VERY (outside) nice Frotier Double Action at a gunshow. Asking price was $750, but then realized that the timing was shot (hand was sheared off) and the bore was badly pitted, probably the result of being fired with corrosive ammo & not cleaned.
Having the hand fixed would have been at least $100.
Just a difference in the way of looking at it, I guess.
A guy I know in Canada just bought himself a very nice Second Model Hand Ejector in .455 Webley Mk I.
Down here in the states such a gun would likely go for $700 or more.
He paid the obscene sum of $265 CANADIAN for it, or about $175 US.
I want to cry...
Mike Irwin
Staff
The calibers listed in Rick Nahaus & Jim Supica's book for each model are those that were offered by the factory in that particular model, hence my use of the term standard as opposed to speciality or special order. I like that term, so I'm going to continue to use it. 
Rick also doesn't get into all the special order items, nor do they talk about a lot of the really odd items, like the few .30 Carbine K-frames that were made during WW II, or the very very few Hand Ejector Model of 1896s chambered in .32 S&W, as opposed to those chambered in .32 Long.
I've been after Rick to make an appearance on TFL or one of the several other firearms boards I frequent for a couple of years now.
I'm also pushing him hard on completing the second edition of the Standard Catalog, and am angling just as hard to be the copy/proof editor on it. So far, he's not given me an answer either way on either front.
Rick also doesn't get into all the special order items, nor do they talk about a lot of the really odd items, like the few .30 Carbine K-frames that were made during WW II, or the very very few Hand Ejector Model of 1896s chambered in .32 S&W, as opposed to those chambered in .32 Long.
I've been after Rick to make an appearance on TFL or one of the several other firearms boards I frequent for a couple of years now.
I'm also pushing him hard on completing the second edition of the Standard Catalog, and am angling just as hard to be the copy/proof editor on it. So far, he's not given me an answer either way on either front.
