41mag....tell me about it please...
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Action_Can_Do
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Ballistically speaking, it's a 210grn bullet at about 1400fps out of a 6 inch barrel. It's less potent than the 44 mag but quite a bit more powerful than the 357 magnum. It's been around since 1964, I believe, and never really been popular. Gun selection and bullet selection are limited. It does have it's enthusiasts though.
Great round, as long as you reload or don't mind spending $.75 to $1 every time you pull the trigger. It's making a bit of a comeback but was considered a dead cartridge with almost no new firearms chambered for it just a few years ago. Component bullet choices are limited but apparently it's an accurate, pleasant round to shoot. I rank it right bwlow the .44 Special on my "want list".
Also .41 Mag is a bit of a misnomer. Unlike other magnums it is not based on a shorter case but since it was marketed as something between the .44 Mag and the .357 Mag the label was tacked on.
Also .41 Mag is a bit of a misnomer. Unlike other magnums it is not based on a shorter case but since it was marketed as something between the .44 Mag and the .357 Mag the label was tacked on.
Yes, and I'm one of them and have been for 25 years. It is true that the .41 magnum is a nitch round, but it still maintains enough commercial interest for a few gun and ammo manufacturers to continue marketing products, even new ones.
The .41 magnum has it's beginnings in the mid '60s. The whole concept was to offer law enforcement a cartridge that would exceed .357 magnum performance but would still be controllable by the shooter. Smith and Wesson introduced the Model 58 and Remington provided 2 loads. I believe wikipedia has a very good write up on the .41. Suffice it to say, Harry Callihan and the Model 29 put the cabash on any real civilian interest and the round languished.
The die hards have never given up and still introduce new people to the great performance potential of the .41 when compared to the .44. It can be loaded with 175gr jhp for SD or plinking, and up to 300gr in cast lead for hunting. I currently own 2, a 6" S&W M657 and a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk. I also own a 5" Redhawk in .44 magnum so this is not a 44 bash. I enjoy shooting both. It's just that the .41 is so much more fun to experiment with. Getting a 275gr flat point lead bullet to leave the barrel in excess of 1400 fps is a hoot.
There are quite a few past posts here that discuss the virtues, or not, of the .41 magnum so use the search feature. It's a great cartridge if you can get past the some of the negatives. Most .41 magnum nuts also reload so we don't have to worry when the guy at wally world says "41 magnum? we don't have no stink'en 41 magnum!"
Its 44's little brother. I like it, its fun and a little different.
Here is my circa 1980 S&W Model 57 4 inch blue, the cartrdges are 230 grain Keith Types over 17.5 grains of 2400 and a 210 Gold Dot over 22 grains of H110.
Below is a really good article about the .41 you might enjoy reading.
The .41 Magnum turns 40 - The Sixgunner
by John Taffin
Here is my circa 1980 S&W Model 57 4 inch blue, the cartrdges are 230 grain Keith Types over 17.5 grains of 2400 and a 210 Gold Dot over 22 grains of H110.
Below is a really good article about the .41 you might enjoy reading.
The .41 Magnum turns 40 - The Sixgunner
by John Taffin
Thanks guys.....you have better current info than wicked peter.
Here is the gun I was checking out...but not sure about the round...I don't reload so this may be a good thought, but back to .357 mag
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159483868
Here is the gun I was checking out...but not sure about the round...I don't reload so this may be a good thought, but back to .357 mag
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=159483868
Duke,
I've been a .41 fan since about 1976. I see no real need to buy a .44 Magnum since I have the .41 in my collection. Sadly, it's a somewhat neglected round because of the attention lavished on the .44 instead.
The .41 Magnum started out in 1964 after Bill Jordan, Skeeter Skelton and others talked to S&W about a "midsized" big bore. The Border Patrol's Jordan wanted a round throwing a 200 grain bullet around 1000 fps. He'd even settle for a 5-shot K-frame configuration if needed. But with the success of the .44 Magnum in their heads, the crew at S&W turned the .41 Police into a Magnum load. First offered with Remington ammo as a "Police Load" using a 210gr swaged LSWC at a nominal 1100 fps from a 6-inch barrel and Remington's 210gr JSP blasting out of a 6-inch at 1400 fps. Police officers, used to the need for JSP/JHP ammo in .38/.357 found the .41's JSP round far too abusive for rapid fire, especially from the 4-inch M&P Model 58. But when issued with the LSWC, scores were much better (but less than with a .357). Still, cities like San Francisco, San Antonio, Honolulu and several state police agencies allowed it's use or issued it.
With police sales dropping away, S&W promoted the Model 57 as a hunting gun. Many folks "discovered" that the .41 Mag was at least as good as the .44 for hunting Deer, Cougar, pigs and even good on bears. The penetration power of the .41 Mag often exceeds that of the .44, especially with LSWC and well designed hunting ammo. The .41 Mag is popular for handgun hunting deer and pigs in the eastern part of the U.S. because it shoots just a little flatter trajectory than the .44 and produces less recoil. For hunting pigs & hogs, it's a hard combination to beat, especially with the newest ammo choices.
Popularity Today
The .41 is far from dead, but it's not as popular as many other rounds. Still, there are a number of guns chambered for the cartridge;
- S&W Model 357 - lightweight scandium .41 Mag
- S&W Model 57 - a return of the classic.
- S&W Model 58 - another classic return
- S&W Model 657 - Stainless versions with 25/8 to 7.5" barrels
- Ruger Super Blackhawk
- Ruger Redhawk
- Taurus has made a snubby in steel and titatium for it.
Model 57 (with target sights) and Model 58 (4-inch fixed).
S&W previously made a few runs of a "Combat" .41 Mag.
1986 Lew Horton 3-inch .41 Magnum
The current production S&W "snubby" is this 2-5/8" barrel.
S&W 657 snubbie with a 2-5/8 slab-sided barrel and unfluted cylinder.
Ammo, once limited to just a pair of Remington rounds (despite a short 2-year run of 170gr JHP) is now more popular than ever.
- Buffalo Bore - 170gr Sierra JHP @ 1650 fps
- Buffalo Bore - 230gr LSWC @ 1450 fps
- Buffalo Bore - 265gr Lead FP @ 1350 fps
- CCI/Speer Gold-Dot - 210 gr @ 1280 fps
- Cor-Bon DPX - 180gr Barnes DPX copper @ 1300 fps
- Cor-Bon Defense - 170gr JHP @ 1275 fps
- Cor-Bon Hunting - 250gr Lead Flat Tip @ 1325 fps
- Cor-Bon Hunting - 210gr JHP @ 1350 fps
- Double Tap - 180gr Barnes TAC-XP @ 1600 fps
- Federal Hi Shok - 210gr Fusion at 1230 fps
- Federal Cast-Core - 250gr Lead at 1180 fps
- Grizzly Ammo - 250gr Lead FP @ 1325 fps
- Remington Express - 210gr JSP at 1300 fps
- Winchester Super-X - 175gr Silvertip @ 1250 fps
- Winchester Super-x - 240gr Silvertip @ 1250 fps
Bullet weights run from 170 to 265 grains in LSWC, Lead Flat Point, Lead Wide/Long Flat Point, JSP, JHP and all-copper bullets. Sadly, none of the major manufacturers makes a "light" load, like the old "police" load for self defense. You have to find these from places like Georgia Arms and other loaders. (Note: The Winchester 175gr Silvertip is close but still a bit "warm".)
Given all this, you might say that the .41 Magnum is more popular than ever before.
I've been a .41 fan since about 1976. I see no real need to buy a .44 Magnum since I have the .41 in my collection. Sadly, it's a somewhat neglected round because of the attention lavished on the .44 instead.
The .41 Magnum started out in 1964 after Bill Jordan, Skeeter Skelton and others talked to S&W about a "midsized" big bore. The Border Patrol's Jordan wanted a round throwing a 200 grain bullet around 1000 fps. He'd even settle for a 5-shot K-frame configuration if needed. But with the success of the .44 Magnum in their heads, the crew at S&W turned the .41 Police into a Magnum load. First offered with Remington ammo as a "Police Load" using a 210gr swaged LSWC at a nominal 1100 fps from a 6-inch barrel and Remington's 210gr JSP blasting out of a 6-inch at 1400 fps. Police officers, used to the need for JSP/JHP ammo in .38/.357 found the .41's JSP round far too abusive for rapid fire, especially from the 4-inch M&P Model 58. But when issued with the LSWC, scores were much better (but less than with a .357). Still, cities like San Francisco, San Antonio, Honolulu and several state police agencies allowed it's use or issued it.
With police sales dropping away, S&W promoted the Model 57 as a hunting gun. Many folks "discovered" that the .41 Mag was at least as good as the .44 for hunting Deer, Cougar, pigs and even good on bears. The penetration power of the .41 Mag often exceeds that of the .44, especially with LSWC and well designed hunting ammo. The .41 Mag is popular for handgun hunting deer and pigs in the eastern part of the U.S. because it shoots just a little flatter trajectory than the .44 and produces less recoil. For hunting pigs & hogs, it's a hard combination to beat, especially with the newest ammo choices.
Popularity Today
The .41 is far from dead, but it's not as popular as many other rounds. Still, there are a number of guns chambered for the cartridge;
- S&W Model 357 - lightweight scandium .41 Mag
- S&W Model 57 - a return of the classic.
- S&W Model 58 - another classic return
- S&W Model 657 - Stainless versions with 25/8 to 7.5" barrels
- Ruger Super Blackhawk
- Ruger Redhawk
- Taurus has made a snubby in steel and titatium for it.
Model 57 (with target sights) and Model 58 (4-inch fixed).
S&W previously made a few runs of a "Combat" .41 Mag.
1986 Lew Horton 3-inch .41 Magnum
The current production S&W "snubby" is this 2-5/8" barrel.
S&W 657 snubbie with a 2-5/8 slab-sided barrel and unfluted cylinder.
Ammo, once limited to just a pair of Remington rounds (despite a short 2-year run of 170gr JHP) is now more popular than ever.
- Buffalo Bore - 170gr Sierra JHP @ 1650 fps
- Buffalo Bore - 230gr LSWC @ 1450 fps
- Buffalo Bore - 265gr Lead FP @ 1350 fps
- CCI/Speer Gold-Dot - 210 gr @ 1280 fps
- Cor-Bon DPX - 180gr Barnes DPX copper @ 1300 fps
- Cor-Bon Defense - 170gr JHP @ 1275 fps
- Cor-Bon Hunting - 250gr Lead Flat Tip @ 1325 fps
- Cor-Bon Hunting - 210gr JHP @ 1350 fps
- Double Tap - 180gr Barnes TAC-XP @ 1600 fps
- Federal Hi Shok - 210gr Fusion at 1230 fps
- Federal Cast-Core - 250gr Lead at 1180 fps
- Grizzly Ammo - 250gr Lead FP @ 1325 fps
- Remington Express - 210gr JSP at 1300 fps
- Winchester Super-X - 175gr Silvertip @ 1250 fps
- Winchester Super-x - 240gr Silvertip @ 1250 fps
Bullet weights run from 170 to 265 grains in LSWC, Lead Flat Point, Lead Wide/Long Flat Point, JSP, JHP and all-copper bullets. Sadly, none of the major manufacturers makes a "light" load, like the old "police" load for self defense. You have to find these from places like Georgia Arms and other loaders. (Note: The Winchester 175gr Silvertip is close but still a bit "warm".)
Given all this, you might say that the .41 Magnum is more popular than ever before.
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The biggest drawback is the fact that there is no such thing as .41 Special ammo that you can buy when you just want to do target shooting or plinking, unlike the .357 and .44 magnums which can also shoot .38 special and .44 special ammo respectively.
But if you reload, that issue is moot.
But if you reload, that issue is moot.
carguychris
New member
Regarding what B.L.E. correctly said, one of the interesting things about .41Mag is that, unlike almost every other commonplace modern revolver cartridge, it's not a high-pressure lengthened version of a 19th-century blackpowder round. It was invented pretty much from scratch. A couple of nominally .41-caliber revolver rounds previously existed, with the .41 Long Colt being the most common, but they were already becoming historical footnotes before the .41Mag was developed; the new rounds' designers did not use them as the basis for the new cartridge.
Its developers originally intended for low-powered rounds to be sold for self-defense or L.E. use, but the market was soon dominated by high-powered Magnum loadings.
Although the selection of available loadings seems to be improving, be aware that factory .41Mag ammo tends to be expensive... sometimes very expensive.
Along with its limited availability and lack of commercial low-powered plnking or target loads, this is another reason why the round largely appeals to handloaders.
FWIW another comparatively minor disadvantage of the round is that AFAIK no major gunmaker has ever introduced a ".41" frame to slot between their mid-sized .357/.38 frame and their large .44 frame. All common .41Mag guns are based on a frame that's also available in the somewhat more potent .44Mag chambering.
Its developers originally intended for low-powered rounds to be sold for self-defense or L.E. use, but the market was soon dominated by high-powered Magnum loadings.
Although the selection of available loadings seems to be improving, be aware that factory .41Mag ammo tends to be expensive... sometimes very expensive.
Along with its limited availability and lack of commercial low-powered plnking or target loads, this is another reason why the round largely appeals to handloaders.FWIW another comparatively minor disadvantage of the round is that AFAIK no major gunmaker has ever introduced a ".41" frame to slot between their mid-sized .357/.38 frame and their large .44 frame. All common .41Mag guns are based on a frame that's also available in the somewhat more potent .44Mag chambering.
Manufacturer nearly killed the gun with their magnum name and their hot loading. That's what you get for listening to marketing instead of the market.
Try 6.5 gr of Hodgdon Universal with a 210 gr LSWC. Nice mild and accurate load in my gun. Good enough for plinking, small game and SD. My factory loads I save for deer and anything serious with large teeth.
Try 6.5 gr of Hodgdon Universal with a 210 gr LSWC. Nice mild and accurate load in my gun. Good enough for plinking, small game and SD. My factory loads I save for deer and anything serious with large teeth.
Inspector3711
New member
Simple solution:
Take up reloading.... You'll enjoy it for the rest of your life.
Take up reloading.... You'll enjoy it for the rest of your life.
orionengnr
New member
I am a big enthusiast and supporter of the .41 Mag. being a reloader, I can manufacture .41 Mag ammo for the same as I can manufacture .357 Mag.
As a matter of fact, it has been a good while since I have fired any .357. Since I can load and shoot .41 Mag and .45LC, that is pretty much all I shoot revolver-wise.
I am considering down-sizing my .357 fleet (of three) due to lack of exercise.
As a matter of fact, it has been a good while since I have fired any .357. Since I can load and shoot .41 Mag and .45LC, that is pretty much all I shoot revolver-wise.
I am considering down-sizing my .357 fleet (of three) due to lack of exercise.
highvel said:
The snubbies tend to be a little bit on the "bright side".
In fact, there's a reason I nicknamed the one above as "Night-Sun"!
Actually.... there is. If you reload, you can occassionally obtain .41 Special brass from specialty makers. I think Starline made a few runs of it in the past. It's lovely stuff and a good way to denote lighter loads.B.L.E. said:
Another issue I know well was that Remington's 210 LSWC was a swaged bullet of soft lead. After about 24 rounds, lead build up in the barrel was hideous. Since then, I've used good cast LSWC pushed even faster without the leading issue.
It could also be that most ammo companies believe that the cost/price of the .41 Mag guns keeps people from using them for SD/HD. A mild load would be welcomed as an alternative to the hand-slammers for both practice and SD.
Well, except for Colt.carguychris said:
Seriously.
If you read up on the history of the Colt Python, which can trace its roots back to the Army Special Model, which chambered .32-20, .38 Colt and .41 Colt. There was an article by a retired Colt employee on a Colt-related website some time ago.
Another minor note... The old original .41 Colt cartridge was slightly smaller in diameter - .404" to .406" instead of .410 caliber. Worse for the Colt cartridge was later .41 Colts were given a .386" diameter bullet and barrels reduced to .400" to .401". This was not condusive to great accuracy as you might guess.
People often say the .41 Mag is "20% less" than the .44 Mag. However, the "standard" load for the .41 Mag is a 210gr @1300 fps/788 ft-lbs. Whereas the .44 Mag standard load was a 240gr @1200 fps/767 ft-lbs. Today it will depend on which loads you compare.
The .44 Mag has the advantage when it comes to heavier bullets at the top end of it's range. Beyond that, we have bigger hand-cannons. But who wants to lug about a 6.25 pound, 5-shooter that needs a gyroscopic stabilizer?
22-rimfire
New member
There were a number of manufacturers who used the soft lead in their lead solid ammo and at that time it was a major barrel leader. That is when I stopped using lead solids for years. Heck, I still have some of that stuff in 357 mag and pretty much won't shoot it.
There is actually quite a broad selection of 41 mag ammo available now as BillCA mentions. The variety far surpasses my personal needs.
Everyone keeps harping on cost.... it costs about the same as comparable factory loaded 44 mag ammo. The exception is white box. Of late, it has been a little difficult to find at gunshops because it was all bought up like so many other calibers in the last 12 months.
dakotashooter2
New member
There is somewhat of a consensus that had the .41 started out as a special it would be much more popular than it is today. A 41 special would be very comparable to the .40/10mm semi auto load which is one of the top SD cartridges today. Runs of 41 sp brass are available but going back to frame size their really is no advantage to it in a full size gun. One could just download full length case. It does shine in custom guns though. Several custom gunsmiths convert 357 size revolvers to accept the .41 special usually in the form of a 5 shot. I have a Ruger Anniversary Model Blackhawk tucked away for just such a project.
When considering the choice between a .41 mag and .44 contemplate this also. The .41 is a .410 diameter while the .44 is actually a .429 diameter. Only .019 difference compared to the .053 between the .357 and .41. It is claimed that the .41 has the optimum weight vs penetration ratio. Whether that is true is debatable, but it has put down everthing I have ever shot with great efficiency.
While ammo and bullet selection will never compare to the .44 the selection of .41 bullets and ammo is greater than it ever has been. Testament that it still has a decent following. Bullet selection is overated anyway. Most guys no matter how many are available generally settle on two or 3 bullets types. Lets just say there is enough of a choice to get done any job that comes up.
Allowing for 7 loads per case and using my own cast bullets my cost is around .11 per round/ $5.50 a box. Just a little over 1/5 the cost of factory lead rounds, 1/2 the cost of .22 mags and barely twice the cost of a decent .22 lr. And when a case neck splits on me I just trim it down to special lengh and get some more use out of it.
When considering the choice between a .41 mag and .44 contemplate this also. The .41 is a .410 diameter while the .44 is actually a .429 diameter. Only .019 difference compared to the .053 between the .357 and .41. It is claimed that the .41 has the optimum weight vs penetration ratio. Whether that is true is debatable, but it has put down everthing I have ever shot with great efficiency.
While ammo and bullet selection will never compare to the .44 the selection of .41 bullets and ammo is greater than it ever has been. Testament that it still has a decent following. Bullet selection is overated anyway. Most guys no matter how many are available generally settle on two or 3 bullets types. Lets just say there is enough of a choice to get done any job that comes up.
Allowing for 7 loads per case and using my own cast bullets my cost is around .11 per round/ $5.50 a box. Just a little over 1/5 the cost of factory lead rounds, 1/2 the cost of .22 mags and barely twice the cost of a decent .22 lr. And when a case neck splits on me I just trim it down to special lengh and get some more use out of it.
I remember (30 years ago) reading a report of a post shooting incident where a police officer back in the early 70s (or so) used his .41 Mag to punch through the back door of a fleeing van. The bad guy was laying down in the back of the van firing at the officer.
The officer put a round of the .41 though the van's back door and then it passed through the entire length of the bad guy.
A much under-appreciated round.
The officer put a round of the .41 though the van's back door and then it passed through the entire length of the bad guy.
A much under-appreciated round.