.416 X 39 Ruger Carbine

[MAD DOG]

I first broached this idea on the .454 casull carbine thread, but it seems worthy of its own attention.
Any ideas as to whether it would be feasible to do a Ruger Mini Thirty/AK/SKS in a .416 or bigger caliber?
It seems that the 7.62 X 39 case would lend itself to being necked out to a larger slug diameter. The actions would handle the pressure fine. This would provide a semiauto big bore in a very compact format.
I hope that I am not just flapping my keyboard here. I do not KNOW if it feasible, but it sounds neat, speculatively speaking.
Gimme some feedback, or tell me I am a hopeless dreamer permanently camped out in left field... Whatever.

 

[David Schmidbauer]

Mad Dog,

You didn't happen to got to SHOT did ya? That had JUST what you are looking for.

SO (Sommer + OckenfuB GmbH) Precision Weapons Bull-Pup Pump Action Rifle. I believe they make it up to .458.

ROTFLMAO

------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"



[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited April 10, 1999).]

 

[amalgam]

a .357 X 39 would be interesting.

 

[Daniel Watters]

Mad Dog, you do realize that a .416"x39mm wildcat would be a straight wall case? Given the taper of the factory magazines, I suspect you might have some problems getting the .416"x39mm to stack properly. My other concern would be how little case capacity would be left over with even the lightest .416" projectiles on the market. I suspect that you'd have difficulty cracking 1600fps with a 300gr .416" loaded to <2.2" OAL _and_ safe pressures. (However, I'd love to be proven wrong. )

I suspect the largest 7.62x39mm wildcat practical within the OAL of the average 7.62x39mm rifle action/magazine would be either the .358" or .375". I know that the former wildcat has been done (9x39mm or .35"x39mm). I vaguely remember the 9x39mm giving .35 Remington ballistics.

Another 'Thumper' idea started with the AR15 conversions to .50 Action Express. This conversions had to use magazine spacers in order to feed the short factory .50AE out of the longer magazine. Why not load the projectiles to a longer OAL and remove the spacers? Now that we have the .440 CorBon (.429/.50AE), this adds even more possibilities with the specialty .429" projectiles from Northern Precision and Alpha LaFranck. Or how about a .458/.50AE?

 

[MAD DOG]

I know that the relatively straight wall would create feed challenges. Perhaps a .375 would be better there.

I was unaware of the .429/50AE Corbon.
That sounds really interesting.
Got any data on it?

 

[Daniel Watters]

I tried to dig up an old Guns & Ammo article on a .358"x39mm conversion of the Mini-30, but it seems to have escaped my grasp. I did find a picture of a .338"x39mm wildcat; this appears to be as far as you can go using the original body taper and still have a shoulder. The .358"x39mm had more of an 'improved' body taper.

According to the Magnum Research web site, the .440 CorBon (.429/50AE) clocked the following out of a 10" Desert Eagle.

240 grain - 1,901 fps
260 grain - 1,579 fps

There is a 305gr load as well, but I can't find data for it. Keep in mind that the factory ammo is constrained by the magazine length of Desert Eagle (=<1.60"). So far the only platform choices are the Lone Eagle and the Desert Eagle.

 

[Daniel Watters]

I just noticed that Winchester once provided a very similar cartridge to the proposed .416"x39mm...the .401 Winchester Self-Loading. It was introduced in 1910 for their Model 10 semi-auto rifle (an upgraded Model 1907). Discontinued in 1936, the factory loads launched a .406" 200gr JSP at >2100fps or a 250gr JSP at ~1900fps. The case measured 1.5" in length, .428" at the mouth, .429" at the web, and .457" at the rim. Overall length was right around 2". Of course, we have to remember that the ballistics were hampered by the limitations of a blowback action.