.416 Remington Magnum Recoil

J

John8789

Inactive
Hello Firing Line,

I have been thinking about what caliber to pick for a dangerous game rifle, that I hope to use on a water buffalo hunt in the near future (they are similar to Cape Buffalo). So far I'm torn between a .375 H&H or a .416 Rem Mag, and I'm leaning slightly towards the latter for the added stopping power.

My question to the community is how bad is the recoil on a .416 Rem Mag? To try and create some perspective, the biggest caliber that I currently shoot regularly is a .308. How can the recoil be managed, and would the difference in recoil justify stepping down to a .375.

I would really appreciate any input from the community.

Sincere regards,
John8789
 
From what folks have said/written, cartridges like the .375 and larger recoil with more of a hard push than a harsh slap.

More recoil, sure, but not all that much more pain. Probably more muzzle rise.

Granted that THR's H&Hhunter is a big guy, but I've watched him "double tap" his .470 Rigby double into a very tight pair at twenty yards. Smaller people tried it, single shot, and had no problem with recoil.
 
recoil

Art is correct.

Several years back I helped a friend site in a 600 nitro express double rifle.

The recoil was absolutely more of a push (shove) than a sharp recoil.
 
The 375 will give you more choices on available factory loads. From light softer recoiling loads to the hard and heavy hitters. If at all possible, try to find someone that has a couple of dangerous game rifles and try them out first. The recoil on the 416 isn't all that bad but it's nothing like a 30-06. Laying one on the bench and shooting while standing makes a big difference also. Have fun choosing and good luck on the hunt.
 
Don't shoot those types off the bench !!!
Most can handle recoil of a 375H&H with well designed stock, leaning into it and starting out with reducedloads !
 
.416 Rem Mag recoils at 52.9 ft-lbs. with a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps out of a 10 pound rifle.
A water buffalo is Asia's tractor. Big, ugly, mean SOB's in northern Australian though. However, I don't think they'll hunt you down and turn you into red mush like a Cape Buff will.
Anyway, Australian outfitters say minimum of .338 Win Mag and they rent you a .375 H&H. So you don't have to buy one unless you want to. "I want one." is a reason.
In any case, felt recoil is a great deal about the rifle and is subjective. Guy came in the shop, long ago, who was heading to Africa. Had to have his own .458 Win. Bought a Win M70 African and a box of ammo(at about $50Cdn per 40 years ago). Picked the rifle up on a Friday evening. Was back Saturday afternoon with the rifle, 18 loaded rounds and 2 empties asking us to sell it all.
 
I once was in your shoes.

I chose the 375 H&H simply because it is much more versatile for me.

One earlier post stated the bullets available for each and the 375 won me over for that reason.

I have a 460 in case I want more punch.

Stock and fit makes recoil a deal maker or breaker.
 
I bought a Win70 in .416rem last summer. I quickly learned that this is all about recoil pad, recoil pad and more recoil pad. A too hard recoil pad, will be bad for your shoulder. With one soft and absorbing enough, it will feel like a .338ish.

Sent fra min SM-G900F via Tapatalk
 
Just an opinion.With my body,my experience,I enjoy my relatively light weight .375 Taylor...270 gr bullet at 2600+ fps.Its fun to shoot.Not quite a full .375 H+H.I can shoot 40 rds on the bench and be OK

First 416 Rem we built,heavier.P-14 action,# 4 or #5 barrel,Boyd's laminate stock....
I benched it.It went beyond "fun" .I decided I did not need one.

HOWEVER, some critters,I might opt for the 416..........maybe.

I have not hunted big,tough critters.No experience.My opinion is not worth too much,but,lets don't let that stop me!!!

Given,you have a guide who puts you in a reasonable shot position...

I think that with a proper bullet,the .375 H+H will do about anything.I also think it is quite "shootable". I can shoot a .375 without hearing footsteps or catching myself cringing.

For me,the 416 crosses the line .It is harder for me to shoot well,and I am more likely to do some recoil anticipation...and muff the shot.

A well placed .375 is better than a flinched off .416.

Your mileage may vary.
 
Over the years I've compiled the following list of some common rifles/loads and the recoil generated. Many of these were specifically for my rifles and hand loads which is why you'll see several loads listed in the same calibers. Even the same loads with different weight rifles for comparison.

Others were the result of curiosity, or because I ran the numbers when someone asked a question here or on other gun forums and I saved the info.

T. O'heir's number of 52 ft lbs is probably close, I figured it with a slightly faster load and a 9 lb rifle and got 62 ft lbs for the 416. Rifle weight does make a big difference.

The often quoted remarks about a slow push vs quick stab has SOME merit if you're comparing rounds with similar recoil numbers. For example 35 Whelen and 300 WM have almost identical recoil. But the 35 will be more comfortable for most people. A rifle that generates 10-20 ft lbs more recoil hurts more, I don't care how slow it pushes.

300WSM 180@2950 8lb 26
300WSM 150@3300 8lb 23.3
300WSM 180@3080 8lb 28.3
300WM 180@3100 8lb 33
300WBY 180@3200 8lb 34
300RUM 180@3250 8lb 37.2
12 SLUG 1oz@1500 7lb 29
12 3.5” 2oz@1150 7lb 72
308 165@2760 7lb 17.2
308 150@2880 7lb 15.2
308 150@2880 6lb 20.3
308 200@2550 7lb 21.3
338FED 200@2550 7lb 22.3
358W 225@2450 7lb 25.3
30-06 150@3000 8lb 18.9
30-06 180@2800 8lb 22.6
30-06 165@2900 8lb 21.4
30-06 200@2700 8lb 23.7
338-06 225@2750 8lb 31.3
35WHLN 250@2550 8lb 32.3
9.3X62 286@2300 8lb 32
444 265@2320 7lb 28.3
4570 400@2100 7lb 49.3
375 WM 270@2700 8lb 43.3
375WM 270@2700 9lb 38.5
338WM 250@2700 8lb 39.5
7mmRM 160@3000 8lb 21.7
30/30 170@2300 7lb 12.6
243 105@3000 7lb 11.6
223 62@3000 7lb 3.7
7-08 140@2900 7lb 16.6
260 140@2750 7lb 14.9
270 130@3200 8lb 17.0
270 150@3000 8lb 18.4
416RM 400@2450 9lb 62
458WM 500@2200 9lb 68
460WBY 500@2600 9lb 102
44 mag 240@1650 6 lb 13
44mag 240@1650 7lb 11
Click to expand...
 
There should be two lists !!
Recoil energy and recoil velocity . The higher recoil velocity the more the punch. IIRC the RE of the 375 is higher than the 338 , but the RV of the 338 is higher than that of the 375. Learn to shoot them and never off the bench.Use shooting sticks as they often do in Africa.:D
 
As has been stated earlier, stock design, stock fit, and weight of rig are all important with these calibers. Lighter gets painful... poor fit makes it worse.
 
Any rifle with a recoil velocity over 15 is going to hurt. I must say the 375 is my limit from shooting off a bench. I refuse to own a rifle I can't shoot from the bench. If you are not sure what the recoil from truely dangerous game rifles feels like try this trick. Go buy the heaviest turkey load you can find for a 12 gauge and lay it across the bench. That is about the start of recoil levels you can expect. It will only go up from there. Never put a high power scope on them and keep them tucked tight into your arm. I've seen people drop them from sticks or and tripods. It's nothing to be scared of but don't be ashamed if you closed your eyes on the first shot. Just remember if you are thinking about the recoil before you pull the trigger you are not likely to make a good shot. A bad shot on any buffalo ( water, Cape, or American bison ) is not going to be a fun or cheap tracking job. This is the reason the 375 is hands down the most popular dangerous game cartridge out there.
 
I have both, well not a 416 Ruger, but a 416 Rigby, and the 375 H&H.

The Rigby hurts. I don't shoot it much unless its with cast bullets and Trailboss powder. Then its fun, but I don't think its much for dangerous game with the reduced load.

The 375 H&H isn't that bad. I shoot it all the time without much discomfort.

The difference is since I'm not afraid of the 375 H&H I can shoot it. I have confidence in my ability to shoot it. Not so the 416 R.

This would be a no brainer for me. I don't care how big the gun is, if I can shoot it, its worthless.

Of course there is another way to go. I recently put muzzle brakes on both guns. Now they are both shoot-able. Of course the 416 knocks my ear muffs off with each shot, the 375 is about like shooting my 270 Win.

Still if I was gonna hunt something that might eat me, I'd still go to the 375 H&H,
 
I have never shot a .416 Remington mag. but I own a .416 Rigby and a .375 H&H. Rifles are similar weight. The .375 kicks sharp and somewhat painful. The .416 pushes real hard and is not painful at all unless you decide you are going to put a death grip on it and stop it from pushing:D. Neither one of them has a brake.
 
I usually try to explain the dangerous game lineup to people that aren't familiar with them in this manner. If you use a non magnum for deer hunting then you will usually end up buying a 375 for your first safari. If you are a die hard magnum fan and love recoil you will usually end up with one of the true power houses. The man with the 375 will shoot more and normally but not always make better shots in the field. It takes pure dedication to fire very many true shots from the big boys. One last thing to remember and it's already been said in this thread, stock design makes a big difference in felt recoil.
 
Right out of the gate, I'll say that my own opinion matches that of tens of thousands of other shooters (and even some gun writers :eek:):
.416 Rigby is the safer bet if you actually go to Africa.
.416 Remington is fine if you just want to own an 'Uber Magnum'.

Chamber pressure matters, and .416 Rigby was designed to handle the increased pressure from intense African heat. .416 Remington, on the other hand, was just meant to sell rifles by looking good on paper.




My experience includes the following 30 caliber or larger cartridges considered 'harsh', and more...
.300 WM
.300 Wby
.338 WM
.340 Wby
.358 Win
.35 Whelen
.375 H&H
.375 Ruger
.416 Rigby
.458 SOCOM (pussycat)
.458 WM
.450 Nitro 3.25"
.475 Tremor (pussycat)

I have never fired a .416 Remington.

My thoughts on a quick, basic run-down of the cartridges, in my opinion and in the particular rifles that I fired:

The Weatherby cartridges are almost universally more 'punishing' than their 'traditional' counterparts.

.375 H&H lets you know that you just launched a good chunk of lead at the target at a decent velocity, but it's manageable with the correct stock geometry.

.416 Rigby isn't all that bad. ...But I grew up being 'forced' to shoot stuff by recoil junkies, so you learn how to compensate ... or take a scope the the face. Speaking of which, .416 Rigby is the only rifle cartridge responsible for every giving me 'scope eye'. It could have been avoided. The cartridge, in a 10+ lb rifle, isn't that bad.

I actually find .358 Winchester and .35 Whelen to be more 'offensive' in the rifles that I've fired (a Ruger Hawkeye and a custom Marlin XL7), than .375 H&H.

.458 WM is considered by many to be a horribly punishing cartridge. I will agree for top-end loads with light bullets. But with heavy bullets or slightly reduced loads, it's no worse than my .270 (a 10 lb rifle with a hard butt plate!). If you can shoot a 7-lb .30-06 without issue, then you can shoot 30+ rounds of 405+ gr .458 WM loads without feeling it. It's the stereo-typically impossible to describe "hard push" rather than a 'punch' in the shoulder. I once went through 40+ rounds of 'heavy bullet' and 5-6 rounds of 'light bullet/max load' .458 WM in a range session that included several hundred rounds of other rifle cartridges. It was quite an enjoyable day, other than the 'light bullet/max load' .458 WM...

And that brings us to .450 Nitro.
I can shoot it.
I'm willing to do so occasionally.
But I usually avoid it.
With 480 gr bullets, it lets you know that you just ignited a substantial amount of powder behind a heavy bullet, and you might hesitate to pull the trigger again (~12 lb double rifle, I believe) ... but you'll do it.
But when the owner stuffs his 350 gr "pet load" in the double, it's time to just say no to drugs ... err .450 Nitro. Hot loads with light bullets are painful for me to shoot. It 'snaps' my neck like nothing else I've ever fired, and instantly gives me a headache. I will be the first to say that that particular double rifle does not fit me very well. Sight alignment is terrible. Length of pull is too short. And it's just ... weird and uncomfortable to shoot.


If I went to Africa for the typical plains game, I'd take my ".243", my .270, and my .35 Whelen. I wouldn't bother with a 'Magnum'. I shoot these rifles better than any of the big stuff, and I'd rather have a well-placed "small caliber" shot than a poorly-placed "large caliber" shot from a ridiculously heavy rifle that I hate hauling around.

A few years ago, my father went on his second trip for African plains game. He ended up taking a pair of .270s, a .300 WM, and his .375 H&H. The .375 H&H never got a chance to play, because the .270s and .300 WM did all the dirty work.
 
Between a 416 and a 375, I'd pick the 375.

But then I picked the 9.3x62 as my "safari" rifle because it was minimum legal for hunting cape buff in Zimbabwe (haven't ever been hunting there, but at least now it's an option).

Better to have a rifle you can shoot well than a rifle you can't.

Jimro
 
Stock fit and material maters. A Ruger No 1 for instance will have more perceived recoil than some of the polymer stocked rifles.
 
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