.410 Mystery Cartridge

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Bucksnort1

New member
I have an all brass, 3" .410 shot shell. It has a head stamp, which is so small I can't identify what is even under high magnification. The primer is probably Berdan based on the size. It also has a date of '70. There are no markings on the case and no indication of what is in the case. A black plastic wad is holding case contents. I don't see anything around the primer indicating it may be sealed.

Anyone know anything about this shell?
 
Nothing specific,

some possibilities are one of the old brass "rifle" shot rounds that the .410 was derived from, or something foreign made...

70 might be a date...1870? 1970??
or (measure the case) it might be the nominal length in mm 2 3/4" would be about 70mm

Is the wad actually plastic (indicating relatively modern manufacture) or could it be something else (fiber/cardstock) with a coating that resembles plastic?

Does it look old enough to possibly be a black powder round??
Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
Berdan

At one point…a while ago now….Magtech produced brass .410 hulls that used #56 (berdan) primers.
 
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44 AMP,

I'm guessing there is a 70 percent chance the wad is plastic. The primer must be Berdan because I've never seen a primer of that size unless it's in a 50 BMG, of which I have no experience except shooting.
 

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The primer looks to be crimped in place, which is kind of odd.

Do you have a caliper?

Can you measure the diameter of the primer?
 
Might be a signal flare.
They were made for the USAF and NASA through at least the early '80s.

I know nothing about the markings on them, though.
Nor case material.
 
Mike Erwin,

Best caliper measurement on primer is 5.73mm and best measurement on case length is 69.68mm so I guess the 70 is case length in millimeters.

I'm one of these gun guys who goes to gun shows not knowing what I can't live without until I see it. I have four of these .410s. I probably saw them on a table, thought they looked cool so I bought them.

Have you been able to determine what the weird looking head stamp is?
 
The fact that it's in a brass case means someone meant it to be easily distinguishable and not accidentally used. Couple of possibilities I can think of-
Signal flare (Frankenmauser already mentioned that). I used to own a 410 flare pistol when I lived in Europe, but it fired short aluminum-cased flares.
OR
Line casting charge (45-70 line casting charges are common in the US and look like the one shown).

some possibilities are one of the old brass "rifle" shot rounds that the .410 was derived from, or something foreign made...
70 might be a date...1870? 1970??
or (measure the case) it might be the nominal length in mm 2 3/4" would be about 70mm
Click to expand...
If it were a date, it would be 1970. The 410 shotshell was developed around 1900 from a number of shot cartridges based on the 44 WCF (44-40). 44 Gamegetter, 44 Long Shot, 44 Shot and others were fairly popular for house and garden guns.

If it were cartridge length it would be an oddball since 410 shotguns were common in 2", 2-1/2" and 3" chamber lengths, but they could make them any size they want to.
 
2 3/4", or 70mm .410 shells, are more common in Europe, so I'm thinking that this is a European loaded shell.


A primer of that rough dimension would seem to be closest to the European sizes used for small pistol or small rifle, which would be about the right size for a brass-cased .410 shell.
 
The pictures clearly remove the "old blackpowder pre-410 ancestor rounds from consideration.

case length in mm matching the "70" marking strongly suggests European origin, and that the "70" is not a date.

So, right now, I'm going to go with "European made .410 shell, probably made sometime within the last 50 years..."
 
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