.41 Special SP-101

F

frontlander

New member
I've heard about .41 Mag brass being trimmed to .38 Special length. This seems like it would be a great catridge for the Ruger SP-101. Would 170-200 gr. bullets in the 900-1000 fps range be possible and safe? Is there such a creature? Is it feasible?
 
I don't think there would be enough steel remaining for this to work, unless you are thinking of having a 4-shot revolver. A k-frame size 5-shot would be to the .40 cal. what a j-frame size 5-shot is to the .38 spl.
 
The spark for this thread was an article in Guns and Ammo a few years back in which G. Sitton spoke of a Ruger Single Six being converted to .41 special. I figured if the .22 cal. Single Six could be converted, why not a SP101. Could those of you who possess both revolvers take some measurements and report back, please?
 
I'm currently working on a .41 Special project using both standard length .41 Mag. cases as well as shortened cases.

I don't know if I'm going to troll the resulting article to a magazine, or just post it on-line.

I need to do a lot of chronograph work, though, before I come up with anything conclusive.
 
Here is some 41 Special load data from my download files. It is from a old Taffin sixguns article. A Custom Colt single Action, 5 1/2" barrel that was rechambered to the cartridge that Bowen had made. If anyone is interested, I've got the entire article and can email it to you.

LOADS FOR THE .41 SPECIAL

FIREARM: CUSTOM COLT SINGLE ACTION BARREL LENGTH: 5 1/2"

BRASS: MIDWAY .41 MAGNUM TRIMMED TO 1.160" PRIMER: CCI #350

CHRONOGRAPH: OEHLER MODEL 35P

CAST BULLET LOADS

BULL-X 215 SWC LYMAN 220 KEITH

LOAD MV MV

5.0 GR. UNIQUE 798* 791

6.0 GR. UNIQUE 900 922

7.0 GR. UNIQUE 1027* 1013

13.5 GR. H4227 1010 982

14.5 GR. H4227 1037* 1065*

15.5 GR. H4227 1120* 1100

12.5 GR. #2400 1063* 1088

13.5 GR. #2400 1167* 1173

14.5 GR. #2400 1227* 1226*

9.0 GR. BLUE DOT 1008* 984

10.0 GR. BLUE DOT 1122 1060*

11.0 GR. BLUE DOT 1211 1156

12.5 GR. AA#9 1018 987

13.5 GR. AA#9 1184 1173

14.5 GR. AA#9 1242 1225

JACKETED BULLET LOADS

LOAD MV/SPEER 200 JHP MV/SPEER 220 JHP

14.5 GR. H4227 1035 1037

15.5 GR. H4227 1080 1102*

16.5 GR. H4227 1155 ----

12.5 GR. #2400 1082* 1063

13.5 GR. #2400 1157 1108

14.5 GR. #2400 1222 ----

12.5 GR. AA#9 1042 1034*

13.5 GR. AA#9 1142* 1130*

14.5 GR. AA#9 1207 ----

7.0 GR. UNIQUE 1043* 1021*

7.5 GR. UNIQUE 1113 1079

8.0 GR. UNIQUE 1175 ----

9.0 GR. BLUE DOT ---- 980

9.5 GR. BLUE DOT ---- 1008

10.0 GR. BLUE DOT ---- 1049*

10.5 GR. BLUE DOT ---- 1085*

*MOST ACCURATE LOADS, LESS THAN 1 1/2" FOR FIVE SHOTS @ 25 YARDS
 
Considering that the L frame Smith has room for five .44 Specials (696)there might be safe room for six .41's. The SP101 is quite a bit smaller though and I suspect that four would probably be all that could be squeezed in (assuming there is room between the centerline of the cylinder and the outer wall). You are, after all, comparing a five shot gun to a six shot gun in the .38 calibers here. The SP101 cylinder is a lot closer to a S&W J frame than to a K or L frame.
 
The L-Frame is popularly known as a .40 cal. frame even though it was first chambered in .357. The K-Frame is the .38 cal. frame. The J-Frame is known as the .32 cal. frame. The N-Frame is known as the .44/45 cal. frame. All of these guns are historically known this way because of the calibers that they were originally designed for, as Six Shooters. Five Shooters came about when people tried to put larger cartridges in a frame than it was designed for.

An L-frame will make a fine .41 Special Six Shooter. A K-Frame will make a great .41 Special Five Shooter. A J-Frame (or Ruger SP-101) will possibly make a .41 Special Four Shooter if the thickness of the frame and forcing cone area is thick enough.

It's a noble attempt, but I think that the K-Frame, or an old Speed/Service/Security Six would be much more promising as a Five Shooter. If someone could build one and offer it at a reasonable price, I would buy one.
 
I'm not real sure there is room between the centerline and the outer rim of the SP cylinder for four OR five .41 cases. You also have to check the barrel position in relation to the cylinder chambers. When S&W built the eight shot 627 they had to modify the frame so that the barrel sat just a bit higher. To get eight rounds into the cylinder (despite plenty of room) they had to move them farther out from the centerline. This meant that they had to move the barrel up with relation to the center of the cylinder. (I've actually measured my 627 and 27 - there is a difference - but it takes a good caliper to read it).
 
3" SpeedSix in .41 Special

This seems like it might be the ideal package for this round. I've always liked the round butt Speed-Six.
 
Ellsworth,

Just to be completely pedantic...

The J-frame was not. originally designed around a .32 caliber cartridge. It was originally designed with the .38 Spl. specifically in mind.

The J-frame's predecessor however, the I-frame, WAS designed around the .32 Long cartridge.

A very, very, very few .32 S&W (not .32 Long) Hand Ejectors are reported to have been made.

The L-frame was originally designed as a beefed up gun better able to withstand the pounding of the .357 Mag., but retaining the K-frame grip size and shape.

Your reference is the first I've ever heard it being called the ".40" frame. The .41 Mag. was chambered in an N-frame.
 
Well, if you can find any old reviews of the L-Frame during the early 80s, you will see it referred to as a .40 cal. sized frame. It is the perfect size for a .40 cal. Six Shooter, or a .36 cal. Seven Shooter.
 
I'm with Mike Irwin regarding the introduction of the S&W L-frame. I've seen absolutely no evidence it was ever intended for any other caliber than .357 Magnum at the time of its introduction, and at that time I probably subscribed to and/or read most of the big-name gun magazines (and a few of the smaller ones, too.)

Any assertion that the L-frame was intended for .40 or .41 caliber cartridges needs documentation for credibility.
 
Well I can't speak to design intent, but I, too, remember the references to ".41 sized frame " on the L-frame. I believe that a now defunct operation called Spokehandguns out of Washington state did one of the first conversions on a Speed Six. It was 5 shot. This would be a fun project for someone with the time to pursue it. Bowen certainly does nice work & has experience with this one. i believe he also offers semi finished cylinders for some guns. You might be able to talk him out of one for a project like this.
 
That .41 frame reference was used to compare the size of the new S&W L-frame to the Colt E & I frame which was originally called the .41 frame.
This is the first I ever heard of the L-frame being referred to as a .40 cal sized frame. As the first .40 caliber L-frame revolver came out in 2000, how did they determine the name in 1980? Even the .40 caliber N-frame didn't come out till the 1990s.
 
About twenty years ago, the ASP Company made a five-shot .44 Special out of a Speed Six. Around that time, there was also a smith who made five-shot .44s out of an S&W Model 10 -- I saw one that a friend had. Both pieces were definitely ahead of their time.

I don't have a SP101 handy to measure, but if Charter Arms can make a five-shot .44, then someone with some foresight could surely make a similarly sized .41 in a higher quality package.

ML
 
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