.41 mag?

R

Red Label

New member
This is sort of a followup to a post of mine in the general handgun forum.

I was searching for a decent light-weight and small handgun to take backpacking/climbing/camping here in Montana in the event of a run-in with a grizzly. The emphasis was on SMALL and LIGHTWEIGHT, and you can add to that COMFORTABLE to hold and shoot, and AFFORDABLE. I learned (and really already knew) that my 45 ACP was pitifully inadequate for the task. So I decided to keep looking and start carrying UDAP pepper spray.

Okay, so I found a really nice (and very comfortable) Taurus DA .41 mag today for a great price (under $400). I have not been able to find a .44 mag yet that fits my criteria, or even comes close. The gun I settle on MUST fit my criteria to be worth it for me. Of course, many people ignored my criteria and gave me the usual calibers like .454, .475, and 12 ga. slugs. But I simply cannot haul those cannons 10 miles into the back country and to the top of technical peaks.

So have I found the right gun? Will a .41 mag be an at least marginal backup to a can of pepper spray? It's got to be better than all but .44 mag, ,45 LC and bigger. Right? Any opinions are much appreciated. Thanks...
 
A .41 Mag. with something like Remington's 210-gr. JSPs is a good alternative.

Out of a 6" barrel it hits right around 1,200 fps. for about 670 foot pounds of energy. Not very comforting when you've got a grizzly trying to make you into a midafternoon snack, but better than nothing.
 
Fouty-one Magnum is literally a ballistic equal to a 44 Magnum and a properly loaded 45 Long Colt. They all have TKO (Taylor Knockout) somewhere in the neighborhood of 23, which is quite a thump. To put this number into perspective, a 308 Winchester, 180 grain bullet, at point blank range TKO's at 21 and a TKO of 23 for a 30-06, 220 grain bullet at the same range.

We can hear tons of arguments of one cartridge doing one set of numbers and another doing something else, but at the end of the day the Taylor Knockout is the same. It's all BS and hair splitting, which at the end of the day will not do a thing to save your life. Being willing to carry a firearm all the time and able to shoot the gun of your choice, accurately is the only thing that will. Shot placement! And that's what does matter.

Only obstacle I see is whether the Taurus can handle the big forty-one loads. The gun is technically a medium size frame. A quick phone call or email to Taurus can easily answer that question. Ask them whether their 41 Magnum can handle hunting loads from Corbon. Would think that it can, CorBon down loaded these bullets below 1000 pound feet of energy and seated them deeper in order to accommodate these types of guns.

Robert



[Edited by Robert the41MagFan on 02-11-2001 at 06:28 AM]
 
Red Label,
With all due respect, the only thing that matters is if a grizzly bear will ignore your criteria. The .41 Mag is a very good cartrige, almost the equal of a .44mag for most applications. No disrespect meant, but using a .41Mag, from most of what I've read/heard, in an encounter with a seriously PO'ed ( the seemingly natural state of a grizzly) grizzly, is going to end with some poor schlep having to track down a wounded and seriously PO'ed grizzly.
 
Itt'l work just fine

The Taurus will work just fine. 210 gr. jacketed soft points will do everything that can be done. Do a little practice to see where it shoots at seven yards and under. Get real proficient at this distance preferably in a high stress environment. The main thing to remember is situation awareness. Know what is going on around you so that suprises are kept to a minimum. If you detect a bear or the bear detects you quick enough you will have time to give each other plenty of room. Isn't it wonderful trying to find information in a place that probably has more armchair commandos than any other sport?
 
Thanks for your input guys. I know that anything less than a cannon is not a good weapon to go hunting for grizzlies with. But I have NO intention of looking for a meeting with one. I grew up here in the back country of Wyoming and Montana, and as yet have never even seen a real live grizzly. I really try to avoid the darn things. There's no way I wanna clean up the mess after I soil myself and maybe get mauled in an encounter with one. But since I've never even seen one around here, I sure ain't going to carry around some huge and heavy gun everywhere with me. I think, from what I've seen here, that the .41 mag would be an okay backup to a can of pepper spray (emphasis on OKAY/better than nothing and BACKUP).

Kaboom - There are a lot of armchair commando's around here for sure, but I still like to get their opinion and give it some weight. And with guy's around here like Keith Rogan, there's a lot of experience that I can learn from. You're totally right about the fact that accurate and quick shot placement under serious stress is the key once one has selected a decent caliber for the job.
 
Red Label; Based on your criteria and all that's been said over both threads whatever handgun you decide on will be a "compromise" when it comes to "Grizzly" country. Your last post seemed to recognize this "compromise". As a compromise, a lightweight 41 magnum is a good choice. Take your pepper spray, have good bear country awareness and you'll do just fine. As far as ammo is concerned the 41 magnum doesn't have as many bullet types and weights like other calibre's. If you're not a handloader you will be somewhat limited. When I'm in the woods of central and eastern Washington State I carry a S&W 41 magnum in a crossdraw holster. The load is Federal's 250gr. Hardcast hunting ammo. You want to drive deep so I would stay away from hollowpoints or softpoints. Good luck and have fun. J. Parker
 
Only you can judge if you are cool and good enough with a revolver to defend yourself against one of the toughest predators that walks. If I thought I might meet such, the least I'd want to carry is my .45-70 with 400-grain loads, or, alternatively, a short 12-gauge with slugs.

That said, if you want to carry a revolver for bear defense, a .41 is as good as a .44. I haven't shot them, but the Federal loads mentioned by another poster are about the same as the handloads with a FN 240 and Blue Dot that I use in my Blackhawk and Bisley Rugers. Deep penetration is what you need.

I've never handled a Taurus revolver that I thought was the equal of any US-made gun, but it's your money and your life.
 
A Taurus .41 magnum is the only sidearm I plan to buy in the foreseeable future.

If I went in big bear country, I would probably stoke mine with 250 grain Federal Castcores. (This is, incidentally, also what I will eventually carry for close-range use against wild boar in the East Georgia woods.) No, you don't want to try it, but browns have been stopped by .22LR. A decent caliber that you actually carry with you and shoot well is better than the "super" caliber at home, or that you miss with.

Yes, if I THOUGHT I'd run into a brown, I'd stay home, or pack my .45-70. If you've never even seen one, practice with the .41, and carry it religiously. Works against thin-skinned bipeds, too.
 
Took my Llama Minimax .45 ACP and S&W 422 .22 LR out today with a friend and his Glock 21. Had a good time and blew a lot of ammo, but I gotta say that I can still shoot WAY more consistantly accurate with the little .22. If I were faced with defending myself against a common criminal (not high or wearing armor) I would actually feel more comfortable using the .22. I'd rather place a clip full of those little guys (only use Stingers in my 22's) in a one inch group in the head area or the heart area than a clip of .45 ACP all around the torso. I have a LOT of practice to do with the bigger semi-autos yet before I feel safe...

My point is just to confirm that accuarcy is everything, and caliber ain't no good if I can't get them where they need to go. I will be more secure if I can shoot the Taurus .41 mag in a small group than if I had a .454 and it was marginal in accuracy. And I'm not expert with a revolver, but I'm sure the Taurus will be just fine for my needs. Compared to a semi-auto, there's just so little that can go wrong. I used (just a short time ago) to be anti-revolver, but the more I shoot autos, the more I see why so many experienced shooters choose revolvers because of their simplicity and reliability.

It's definately going to be the .41 mag for me right now as it stands...

Thanks guys!
 
I am a big fan of the .41; but I am not crazy; handguns are not my idea of bear defense; but, they are better than nothing. I understand that most folks do not want to hump a lever gun or shotgun around all day.
.41 would be the low end gun IMHO.
 
I'm a big fan of the .41 Mag. I hunt in country here in Idaho where there are a few grizzlies... and lots of Black bears. I certainly agree that a .45-70 or 12 ga. slug is better than a handgun... but, doing all the chores around a camp that have to be done, makes it almost impossible to carry a long gun. Therefore, the .41 Mag. (or, sometimes, my heavily loaded .45 Colt), is always in my shoulder holster.

If you handload, check out the great hard cast bullets at http://www.beartoothbullets.com . They are very, very good.

Practice, practice, practice. If you need that .41, do your dead level best to get that bullet nto the bear's mouth/nose, and up into the brain.

FWIW. J.B.
 
Thanks for the replies. I almost bought a .45 Colt, but don't want a single action gun for a defense gun. I still plan to get a decent .41 or .44 mag someday, but have settled on the Winchester 1300 Defender 12 ga. shotgun for now. Just couldn't help myself at the store. Plus, because shotguns are so cheap, I had some cash left over to buy accessories. I may not carry this thing everywhere, but when I have it I will at least feel like I am packing a gun fit for the task of knocking a bear down. I bought 3" mag buck shot and slugs, so if it don't knock a bear down, it will have a chance at knocking me down...
 
i may not know what im talking about, but what about a glock .45 super? arent those things supposed to push 1500 fps?
 
Munched

The bear will not be able to tell a difference between a 41/250 gr. hard cast, a 44/300 hard cast, and a 45 colt/325 hard cast (out of a 6-shot ruger). If you miss brain with any, you will get gnawed on. Buy a 41. Or, buy a gp100 and load it w/ federal cast core 180s or handloaded heavyweights.

I'm thinking the only way to get a bear to respond to a body hit with a handgun is to use a controlled-expander in a 454 (like the FA JSPs), or a hard cast goin' fast out of a 475/500/50AE.

Don't use anything but hardcast flat points in the lesser calibers.

JMNSHO
 
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