ligonierbill
New member
Since we highjacked oldbear 1950's thread, I started another to share more information and repent of my "cast iron" faux pas. That first. Cast iron usually means an iron-carbon alloy with >2% carbon, not iron that is cast into a shape. Everything below that on the phase diagram is technically steel. The term malleable iron refers to a very low carbon content steel. Some comparisons of yield strength, the point at which nonelastic, permanent deformation occurs:
malleable iron - 35,000 psi
"mild" steel (0.16% - 0.29% C) - 36,000 to 58,000 psi
4140 steel (modern gunmaking) - as mfg 60,200 psi/heat treated up to
131,000 psi
Carpenter Custom 465 (Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull and 480 Ruger cylinders) -
238,000 psi
So the old pistols aren't exactly weak, but they are not even close to modern revolvers. But why? By 1877, good quality steel was being made by "puddling" and had been for years (centuries if you include what the Chinese were doing) and the open hearth and Bessemer processes had been developed. Simply, they were designed for blackpowder and are totally adequate for that propellant. No need to complicate your material and manufacturing and raise your price. So I shoot my 1877 (mfg 1878) without concern or regret, but always with blackpowder.
The Army Special is a different beast. First sold in 1908, it was made through 1927, continuing with little change as the Official Police until 1969. I'm sure materials and heat treatment were improved over that time, but I didn't look it up. Also don't know when they dropped the 41, maybe 1939? I have several boxes of Winchester-Western "Luballoy" ammo that aren't that old. That stuff went 674/19.3 std out of one of my Army Specials (circa 1915 and 1920). The COL is 1.412, too long for the 1877 cylinder. Would they be otherwise safe in the old gun? Maybe. But I'll stay with holy black.
malleable iron - 35,000 psi
"mild" steel (0.16% - 0.29% C) - 36,000 to 58,000 psi
4140 steel (modern gunmaking) - as mfg 60,200 psi/heat treated up to
131,000 psi
Carpenter Custom 465 (Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull and 480 Ruger cylinders) -
238,000 psi
So the old pistols aren't exactly weak, but they are not even close to modern revolvers. But why? By 1877, good quality steel was being made by "puddling" and had been for years (centuries if you include what the Chinese were doing) and the open hearth and Bessemer processes had been developed. Simply, they were designed for blackpowder and are totally adequate for that propellant. No need to complicate your material and manufacturing and raise your price. So I shoot my 1877 (mfg 1878) without concern or regret, but always with blackpowder.
The Army Special is a different beast. First sold in 1908, it was made through 1927, continuing with little change as the Official Police until 1969. I'm sure materials and heat treatment were improved over that time, but I didn't look it up. Also don't know when they dropped the 41, maybe 1939? I have several boxes of Winchester-Western "Luballoy" ammo that aren't that old. That stuff went 674/19.3 std out of one of my Army Specials (circa 1915 and 1920). The COL is 1.412, too long for the 1877 cylinder. Would they be otherwise safe in the old gun? Maybe. But I'll stay with holy black.
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