.40S&W vs 10mm

F

FUD

Moderator
I'm a little bit confused :confused: ... I was under the impression that the .40S&W was a chopped down (and weaker) version of the 10mm round. However, Marshall & Sanow rate the .40S&W as having stopping power in the hi-90 percentile while the 10mm barely makes it into the 90's. And even The Fackerites rate the two bullets about the same. However, I've read here on TFL how much more powerful the 10mm is over the .40S&W. The .40S&W expands and penetrates about the same as a 10mm with better stopping power but the 10mm is a more powerful round. Help me understand. What am I missing here as I have my eye on a 10mm and now I'm beginning to have doubts.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
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That's because most of the studies, I believe, are old studies. With new ammo, the ten does outperform, but you have to go with certain brands. For example, Federal Hydra-Shoks, are down loaded 10mms and throw a 180grain at 980 fps which is identical to a .40 in the same weight. Winchester loads a 175grain at 1290 fps. Little bit of a difference there, don't you think? Proload throws a 150grain at about 1300 fps. I hope that clears it up a little bit. If it didn't its because I have limited time, and the issue is a little bit confusing. My computer is always threatening to kick me off due to "inactivity." So, gotta go. Anybody know a solution to my inactivity problem, let me know, please.

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"Vote with a Bullet."
 
Most 10mm loads are weak because the Feebies couldn't deal with a real caliber. Those down-sized rounds are comparable in power to the .40 Liberty.

You want to see what the 10 can do, get some Hornady XTPs. Yow!
 
Better yet, get some of the original Norma 10mm loads.

This was the stuff that was causing Colt Delta Elites to crap out after a few dozen rounds.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
It probably has more to do with bullet construction than anything else. Plus, the OSS rating is related to the number of reported shootings and the 10mm probably has far fewer reported cases.

In bullet construction, an expanding bullet will upset at a faster rate as the velocity increases. So, if a bullet designed to expand at 40 S&W velocities is fired from a 10mm it will expand faster and penetrate less.

It is possible to over-accelerate a bullet to the point that performance is worse even though the "power" is greater.

Mikey
 
Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?

S&M rate the 40S&W 155 HS at 97%. It does 1100 fps/416 ft lbs fps from my G22. Hard to believe the it's "better" than the 155 JHP at 1300 fps 10mm load, or the 175 10mm/41 Mag Silvertip...

I know which one drops deer/goats faster.

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What it has to do with is the fact the M&S stats are not reliable, or at least not statistically significant enough of sample sizes from which to draw a valid conclusion. Forget all about OSS stats until they are scientifically valid, and you'll be on the right track. With bbl lenghts of 5"+, the 10mm is much more powerful than the 40s&w, but it also has an accepted pressure rating 2,500 beyond the .40, which batters your pistol more.
 
Commercial .40S&W will, in most cases outperform 10mm commercial loads. That is what typically happens when one cartridge gets tons of competition and R&D and the other is sent to pasture. Here are some common numbers from both cartridges.

.40 S&W

135 gr bullet 1140 FPS/ 390 Energy
155 gr 1140 / 447
180 985 / 388
1015 / 412

10mm

155 gr bullet 1125 FPS/ 436 Energy
180 gr (FBI load) 950 / 361
1030 / 425

10mm handload

135 gr bullet 1670 FPS with imr 800x
155 1475 FPS ""
180 1320 FPS ""
pressure below 35000PSI, 5" barrel

Don't flame me if the numbers are not to your specs. These are average numbers from Gun Digest and Modern Reloading, not mine. I very aware of 10mm and 40S&W loads that are better than these numbers. And that there are a few nuts hurling 135gr bullets from their 610 at over 1700 FPS.

Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited June 22, 2000).]
 
It's a little bit clearer but I'm still a little bit confused but I guess that's okay. So, to take advantage of it's greater (stopping) power, which commercially available ammo do people recommend? Thanks,
FUD
fudeagle.gif

Share what you know, learn what you don't.
 
Some of the comments are right on. Especially the one about the 10mm shooting bullets designed for the .40 AGP (Automatic Glock Pistol - I always liked whoever came up with it).

However, I think that the 180gr Gold Dot is acutally a better candidate for the 10mm that .40, and the WW 175gr Silvertip was designed for the 10mm, not the .40, so it's going to maximize 10mm performance. I've shot these things in a lot of unscientific media, and the results have always been devastating. Good penetration AND excellent expansion.

I think the .40 is an excellent load, but when it's firing bullets designed for the .40 its a case of diminishing returns. At some point it's too much power for the bullet to deal with.

But with loads like the 175 gr Silvertip - geez, these are scary.

Also, since so few of us are using the 10mm, not too many people are getting shot with it, so results are scarce, unlike the .40. C'mon - which would you rather not get shot with, a 180gr .40 at 950fps, or a 175gr 10mm at over 1200?

This kind of hard data tends to make me sceptical of OSS data - though I do find the stuff interesting, I don't find it compelling.


I think the simple answer to your question is the .40 is NOT a better stopper than the 10mm - but it's still a pretty darn good stopper. My wife uses the .40, and keeps her BHP .40 by the bed - And if for some reason she wakes up first, I'm confident that the Remington 165gr GS will do a good job on Mr. Badguy.

As to the 10mm beating the heck out of Colts after a few dozen rounds, well I'm sure Mike knew that was an exaggeration, but they did tend to beat mine up (took a couple of thousand though). But the cure is over at Wolff's by way of a 28lb recoil spring. Works like a charm - even on those tough Norma loads I still shoot on occassion. Nice to have a source for them as they are very hard to find.

Tom

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Don't Tread on Me

Why 10mm beats .45 ACP . . .
www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
 
Yes, has to do with no one gets shot with a 10mm, the statistics dont have much to go on. They also say a .44 or .41 mag is not a good stopper also. A 10mm in any load makes a .45 look like a wrist rocket.
 
I always kind of figured that when the BGs realize you have a 10mm they run like hell and weave back and forth, which makes it harder to get a good COM hit, so the OSS statistics do not look as good. ;)
 
Just as a side note for those that might not have read my related post, my interested in the 10mm has to do with defense (not hunting) against thick-skinned, four-legged creatures where a rifle/shotgun is not within reach and I already own a .40S&W.
 
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