Ok I need some opinions please. I currently am debating on my first hand gun. I was considering a .40 because I want something with more stopping power than a 9mm but I didn't want to get something so big as a .45 because of recoil. I mean I don't know it just seems logical that a larger caliber is going to have more kick. I also realize there are more factors involved than just caliber. The thing is as i read more and more on this I am hearing that .45s are smoother and have a softer recoil than a .40. My question is are .45s more controlable than .40s and do they tend to have a softer recoil??? I want to know what is going to be the best in terms of being able to get back on target faster.
.40 vs .45
- Thread starter GMR
- Start date
There are too many variables to say. It depends not only on weight, but on grip shape and angle, as well as the height of the bore axis above the hand. I declined to buy a Glock 23 .40 simply because the one I tried squirmed badly in my hand. An HK USPc .40 also kicks, but it doesn't squirm so I can shoot it quite well. I shoot a steel-frame 1911 .45 the best, mostly because of the weight and the way I can make the grip fit my hand. However, with an alloy .45 it's back to wanting to squirm again.
Go to a rental range and try a few out. That's the only way to know.
Go to a rental range and try a few out. That's the only way to know.
Blue Duck357
New member
DSK makes a good point about how heavy the gun is being a big factor.
While technically the .40 has less recoil than the .45 nearly all of the pistols designed for it are considerably lighter than most 45's so they seem to kick more. I always found my steel frame 45 had a lot less kick than my Glock 23 or even a fullsize Glock 22.
40SW also has a worse muzzel blast than the 45 (due to operating at a higher pressure) making shooting them a little less comfortable. Sometimes I think the brain fools people into thinking muzzel blast is recoil which is why you see people claiming the 45 has less "kick" even in the same weight guns.
While technically the .40 has less recoil than the .45 nearly all of the pistols designed for it are considerably lighter than most 45's so they seem to kick more. I always found my steel frame 45 had a lot less kick than my Glock 23 or even a fullsize Glock 22.
40SW also has a worse muzzel blast than the 45 (due to operating at a higher pressure) making shooting them a little less comfortable. Sometimes I think the brain fools people into thinking muzzel blast is recoil which is why you see people claiming the 45 has less "kick" even in the same weight guns.
Start at the beginning. What are you going to use the pistol for - range, CCW, home defense, all of the above? For range use weight doesn't matter and size and larger sights are preferable. For CCW smaller size, weight, and a smoother profile take precedence. For home defense sights, magazine capacity, and muzzle flash are more important. There are other factors as well - like your budget.
You are making a big assumption about the 9mm, which has killed more humans than any other round in history. You can often buy range ammo for 1/2 of what a .45 will cost you. What's your objective?
You are making a big assumption about the 9mm, which has killed more humans than any other round in history. You can often buy range ammo for 1/2 of what a .45 will cost you. What's your objective?
GMR - Welcome to TFL.
This is your first handgun? I would suggest you stay away from a semi-auto all together, buying instead a medium or large framed revolver. For caliber I would look at .357Mag, I think a 4" barrel would be ideal but anything from 3" to 6" would be appropriate.
If you know enough about guns, and/or have someone whose knowledge you trust to help you (either a dealer or a friend), then a used gun would be your best value.
If that doesn't work for you, I would then suggest you look at purchasing a new Ruger or Taurus revolver.
Learning how to shoot and handle a handgun is a much easier experiance with a revolver, from manipulating the firearm safely to cleaning & maintenance after the range session. After you have become familiar with a handgun, the next step can be a semi-auto. Also, some of the personal preferences you will develop can be identified by spending way less money on a used revolver, rather than plunking down a lot of cash on a semi-auto only to find you might have wanted something different!
This is your first handgun? I would suggest you stay away from a semi-auto all together, buying instead a medium or large framed revolver. For caliber I would look at .357Mag, I think a 4" barrel would be ideal but anything from 3" to 6" would be appropriate.
If you know enough about guns, and/or have someone whose knowledge you trust to help you (either a dealer or a friend), then a used gun would be your best value.
If that doesn't work for you, I would then suggest you look at purchasing a new Ruger or Taurus revolver.
Learning how to shoot and handle a handgun is a much easier experiance with a revolver, from manipulating the firearm safely to cleaning & maintenance after the range session. After you have become familiar with a handgun, the next step can be a semi-auto. Also, some of the personal preferences you will develop can be identified by spending way less money on a used revolver, rather than plunking down a lot of cash on a semi-auto only to find you might have wanted something different!
ojibweindian
New member
Welcome!
I have never perceived much of a difference in recoil between the .40 and .45 in similar sized guns. As an interesting and insignificant factoid I, years ago, briefly owned a little S&W auto in .380 that had the worst "recoil" of any gun I ever laid a hand on. Size and ergonomics play an important part in felt recoil; that little S&W got the worst of both worlds.
Sold it a month after I bought it.
With that out of the way, I agree with the others who say that a person's first gun should be a revolver.
However, having said that, I should mention my first handgun was a S&W 457. Let me also say that before I went to the range, I made absolutely sure that I was familiar with its manual of arms and the 4 fundamental firearms safety rules.
If a neophyte to the world of handguns is willing to put in the time to learn their weapon well, a semi-auto is okay.
I have never perceived much of a difference in recoil between the .40 and .45 in similar sized guns. As an interesting and insignificant factoid I, years ago, briefly owned a little S&W auto in .380 that had the worst "recoil" of any gun I ever laid a hand on. Size and ergonomics play an important part in felt recoil; that little S&W got the worst of both worlds.
Sold it a month after I bought it.
With that out of the way, I agree with the others who say that a person's first gun should be a revolver.
However, having said that, I should mention my first handgun was a S&W 457. Let me also say that before I went to the range, I made absolutely sure that I was familiar with its manual of arms and the 4 fundamental firearms safety rules.
If a neophyte to the world of handguns is willing to put in the time to learn their weapon well, a semi-auto is okay.
The biggest mistake people make when considering pistols is that they ignore the fit and ergonomics of a given pistol, instead concentrating on criteria such as weight, capacity, and marketing hype.
First and foremost, choose a pistol that fits your hand well and that is ergonomically pleasing.
The rest has a tendency to fall into place after that.
(A caution on weight: Choose an all steel pistol, as the weight will dampen the perceived recoil, reduce muzzle flip, and subsequently allow for quicker sight realignment.)
First and foremost, choose a pistol that fits your hand well and that is ergonomically pleasing.
The rest has a tendency to fall into place after that.
(A caution on weight: Choose an all steel pistol, as the weight will dampen the perceived recoil, reduce muzzle flip, and subsequently allow for quicker sight realignment.)
I'm in agreement with Erik.
And like to add a few other thoughts:
1. Figure out what the intended purpose of your weapon: plinking, home defense, ccw.
2. Make your first choice based on those factors. Note: Don't make the mistake I made in getting the cheapest weapon possible if you're looking for a HD/CCW pistol. While there are values for the money, keep in mind that expense should not come before your life. I bought a Tuarus PT-145 based on the cost versus like compact .45s, and got burned big time. I traded it in, and put $800 more on a Kimber Custom CDP that I shot first at a rental range.
3. Caliber is not important at the documented range of most personal defense situations. Reliability and your personal proficiency with the weapon are what will see you through to fight another day.
I personally enjoy the .45, although I considered the .40. My issues were concealability, how it fit me, and how reliable it was. I was left with a Sig 226 in .40, or the Kimber. I went with the Kimber based on the layout of the weapon (all the familiar parts in the "right" places...the sig puts the decocker in the "normal" slide stop position - a potential mistake maker in a high stress/high threat situation.
Take your time, do your research, and you'll do fine. Good luck and welcome.
And like to add a few other thoughts:
1. Figure out what the intended purpose of your weapon: plinking, home defense, ccw.
2. Make your first choice based on those factors. Note: Don't make the mistake I made in getting the cheapest weapon possible if you're looking for a HD/CCW pistol. While there are values for the money, keep in mind that expense should not come before your life. I bought a Tuarus PT-145 based on the cost versus like compact .45s, and got burned big time. I traded it in, and put $800 more on a Kimber Custom CDP that I shot first at a rental range.
3. Caliber is not important at the documented range of most personal defense situations. Reliability and your personal proficiency with the weapon are what will see you through to fight another day.
I personally enjoy the .45, although I considered the .40. My issues were concealability, how it fit me, and how reliable it was. I was left with a Sig 226 in .40, or the Kimber. I went with the Kimber based on the layout of the weapon (all the familiar parts in the "right" places...the sig puts the decocker in the "normal" slide stop position - a potential mistake maker in a high stress/high threat situation.
Take your time, do your research, and you'll do fine. Good luck and welcome.
I agree with most of the others. If this is your first gun get a revolver. It is simpler to operate, thus there is less of a chance that you may make a mistake (potentially dangerous with guns). However, if you prefer autos it may be a better bet because you will practice more with what you like.
In revolvers consider a .357 mag. You don't want to start with shooting .357 ammo but you can shoot .38s out of a .357 so you will have a very versatile gun. In .38s you have very inexpensive practice ammo through very effective defensive .38 +Ps. In .357 you also have some variety and all are very powerful rounds. Stay away from the little snubbies. In a first gun, a medium or large frame gun is best (the medium frame may be more versatile) and a 3" or 4" barrel is, again, most versatile
All calibers mentioned are very good. The .45 is often more comfortable than the .40. Some of that is the guns they are designed for some is the high pressure of the .40 caliber round (though the .40 is often found in smaller guns so it may be a better choice if you want a gun that will eventually do CCW duties). The 9mm should not be discounted. With cheap practice loads the only thing cheaper is .22 and with good self defense loads it can be nearly as effective as a .40 or .45 (with little real world, practical, difference). Since shooting a 9mm is cheaper you will probably get much more practice making you a better shooter which is much more important than the, relatively small, theoretical differences in stopping power.
If this is going to be your only gun look at the above calibers and find the gun in any of them that you like best. As others have said, rent first so you can make a better decision for you. This is also the case if you may buy other guns but not for quite some time.
If you will eventually own other guns consider a .22. 500 rounds of .22 can be had for under $10 (usually 50 rounds of the others runs from $6-14) which allows for tons of practice and will make you a better shooter.
In revolvers consider a .357 mag. You don't want to start with shooting .357 ammo but you can shoot .38s out of a .357 so you will have a very versatile gun. In .38s you have very inexpensive practice ammo through very effective defensive .38 +Ps. In .357 you also have some variety and all are very powerful rounds. Stay away from the little snubbies. In a first gun, a medium or large frame gun is best (the medium frame may be more versatile) and a 3" or 4" barrel is, again, most versatile
All calibers mentioned are very good. The .45 is often more comfortable than the .40. Some of that is the guns they are designed for some is the high pressure of the .40 caliber round (though the .40 is often found in smaller guns so it may be a better choice if you want a gun that will eventually do CCW duties). The 9mm should not be discounted. With cheap practice loads the only thing cheaper is .22 and with good self defense loads it can be nearly as effective as a .40 or .45 (with little real world, practical, difference). Since shooting a 9mm is cheaper you will probably get much more practice making you a better shooter which is much more important than the, relatively small, theoretical differences in stopping power.
If this is going to be your only gun look at the above calibers and find the gun in any of them that you like best. As others have said, rent first so you can make a better decision for you. This is also the case if you may buy other guns but not for quite some time.
If you will eventually own other guns consider a .22. 500 rounds of .22 can be had for under $10 (usually 50 rounds of the others runs from $6-14) which allows for tons of practice and will make you a better shooter.
I can compare 9mm, .40, and .45 equally because I shoot each one in full-size 1911's that are the same size and weight. I find the kick on the 9mm to be very light, the .40 is about 30% up from the 9mm, and the .45 is about twice the 9mm. This is using factory FMJ ammo: 9mm = 115 grain, .40 = 180 grain, .45 = 240 grain. I really don't like the .45 and I find the .40 to be the most enjoyable (the 9mm feels like a .22 after shooting the others).
I vote with the others that you should get a revolver if this is a protection gun.
I vote with the others that you should get a revolver if this is a protection gun.
I shoot .40 out of a Beretta 96FS Inox and .45 from a Glock G30. I find the Glock is about equal in recoil when compared to my .40, even though the Glock is both lighter and smaller than the Beretta. It must be the polymer frame absorbing recoil as is commonly stated. My Beretta is not in the least uncomfortable, but it definitely is "snappier" than the .45.
Pat Brophy
Pat Brophy
Hey thanks for all the input guys. Let me clairfy real quick though. This will be my first gun that I have owned not the first gun I have fired. I spent 4 years as an active duty Marine and that is where i learned the fundamentals of marksmanship and where I shot my first firearm which was an M-16. I also was lucky enough to get to go to the pistol range and be taught how to properly fire a hand gun accuratly. I fired Berretas out on the range and I also was able to fire a friends Glock 30. I liked the feel of the Glock a lot better because it just seemed a lot nicer gun and was smoother obviously because Marine Corps issue Berettas are beat to **** compaired to a new Glock that has maybe 250 rounds through it if that. The main purpose of this gun will be target shooting because I love to shoot and I miss it but, also to shoot some idiot that decides to come in the house uninvited. I understand all about weapons safety and the importance of familiarity of your weapon. I am definatly getting an auto I just need to figure out what is best suited for me. Once again thanks for all the help guys and anymore incite would be greatly apprecited.
"The main purpose of this gun will be target shooting..."
In that case, I recommend looking into all steel gov't model 1911s.
As your skill grows you can tune your 1911 to keep ahead of your skills. I say "keep ahead" because there are few who can outshoot a target grade 1911.
1911s:
Out of the box they're good.
Out of the smith they're great.
In that case, I recommend looking into all steel gov't model 1911s.
As your skill grows you can tune your 1911 to keep ahead of your skills. I say "keep ahead" because there are few who can outshoot a target grade 1911.
1911s:
Out of the box they're good.
Out of the smith they're great.
My impression is this:
The 9*19 mm has a quick, though lighter recoil.
The .45 ACP has a heavier recoil, but it is more spread out over time.
The .40 S&W combines the worst qualities of the two, being quick while heavier than the 9*19.
I listed them in order of controllability and pleasantness for me.
That said, on the right platform I think the .40 S&W to be fine. If you like Glocks check out the G35 Tactical/Practical frame.
The 9*19 mm has a quick, though lighter recoil.
The .45 ACP has a heavier recoil, but it is more spread out over time.
The .40 S&W combines the worst qualities of the two, being quick while heavier than the 9*19.
I listed them in order of controllability and pleasantness for me.
That said, on the right platform I think the .40 S&W to be fine. If you like Glocks check out the G35 Tactical/Practical frame.
Greeting's GMR,
I'm glad you brought this question to light. I've been shooting
handguns for well over 30 years now; always seeking to be
as proficent as possible with whatever firearm I am shooting.
With the introduction of .40 caliber firearm's back in 1990, I
too had to jump on the bandwagon and purchase a few self-
loader's chambered for this cartridge. I acquired a NIB Sig-
Sauer P229 w/Sig-Lite night sight's, a Glock 23, and a Glock
27. Quickly, I found out if one is recoil sensitive the .40
caliber's that I have mentioned are not for them. All are
fine firearm's; but the Sig's grip seemed too short to fully
accomodate the muzzle blast and recoil of the weapon.
The Glock's felt better; especially the sub-compact model
27. Believe it or not, the G-27 was the most accurate of
the three.
Changing gear's, the .45 ACP when fired from a QUALITY
platform (and there are many) seems to me to be more of a
"manageable" cartridge. Nowday's, I use the Sig-Sauer P220
exclusively for all my .45 ACP rounds. And too me, the .45 ACP
has a moderate edge of accuracy; as compared to the .40
caliber firearm's. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is my
vote definitely goes to the .45 ACP.
Respectfully,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
I'm glad you brought this question to light. I've been shooting
handguns for well over 30 years now; always seeking to be
as proficent as possible with whatever firearm I am shooting.
With the introduction of .40 caliber firearm's back in 1990, I
too had to jump on the bandwagon and purchase a few self-
loader's chambered for this cartridge. I acquired a NIB Sig-
Sauer P229 w/Sig-Lite night sight's, a Glock 23, and a Glock
27. Quickly, I found out if one is recoil sensitive the .40
caliber's that I have mentioned are not for them. All are
fine firearm's; but the Sig's grip seemed too short to fully
accomodate the muzzle blast and recoil of the weapon.
The Glock's felt better; especially the sub-compact model
27. Believe it or not, the G-27 was the most accurate of
the three.
Changing gear's, the .45 ACP when fired from a QUALITY
platform (and there are many) seems to me to be more of a
"manageable" cartridge. Nowday's, I use the Sig-Sauer P220
exclusively for all my .45 ACP rounds. And too me, the .45 ACP
has a moderate edge of accuracy; as compared to the .40
caliber firearm's. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is my
vote definitely goes to the .45 ACP.
Respectfully,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
GMR: now that you told me the uses for the gun will be target shooting and home defense, I am even more convinced a revolver is the way to go. Check out a SW 686 or 66 in 4" barrel. Hard to beat for accuracy or reliability. If you're stuck on auto, I like the Berettas (only auto reliable enough for me to take to a gunfight).
The .45 has more recoil than the .40. The .40 recoil is so snappy however that it feels as if it has more recoil..Kinda something like what croyance said.. it comes at you fast and its gone whilst the .45 builds up to that recoil!
The gun you are using also makes a BIGGGGG difference
The gun you are using also makes a BIGGGGG difference