".40 Short & Weak?" for LEOS

I

IanS

New member
This question is for all you Law Enforcement Officers out there. Since this cartridge has gained wide popularity among various departments can you guys and gals give us your take on this cartridge?

A lot of civilians have come up with a clever use of an acronym and think its reason enough to bash this round.
 
IMHO it's a great compromise between the 9mm and the .45! 9mm a bit too small, .45 a bit too big, .40 S&W just right. Its going to be a long time before the .40 gets displaced as a mainstay of American law enforcement. Our department, mid-size city in central Texas, went from .38 spl +P to .40 S&W. In this case it was nice to be a little slow to react to the switch to issue automatics. If we had moved faster we would have been stuck with a bunch of 9mm s. The authorized rounds if you wish to purchase your own weapons are .380 (non-uniform), .38 spl +P, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 10mm. Darn near everyone carries a .40 whether they stick to the issue Glock M22/23 or carry a personal weapon.
 
We carry the G23 while on duty, loaded with the CorBon 135gr screamers. For training and range purposes, we use the Speer Lawman 180gr FMJ's. I fell in love with the .40 when I finally got it in my hands. It's a great compromise between the 9mm and .45. I am sure I will venture into other calibers later on, but as far as duty and home protection, my family is safe with my .40's in the house.

Semper Fi-
JJC
 
As has been stated, the .40 is a compromise round. My PD (except for SWAT) uses the 9mm and I am entirely satisfied with that. While I recommended we transition to the .40 because it has more potential effectiveness (heavier bullets and a slightly larger frontal diameter), I couldn't quantify its potential increase in effectiveness and told that to the Chief. It then came down to a $$ issue (what doesn't?) and we stayed with the 9mm. If someone can tell me that caliber x is xx% more effective than caliber y (and can back it up with studies) I am more than interested to hear about it!

Pick the right bullet/load (for us that's the 135 gr Federal bonded core hp) and the 9/40/45 are all within fractions of each other regarding penetration depths and expanded diameter. The key is being able to hit your target, and the average officer will do so better with the 9mm. And that makes the 9mm more effective in the long run (for the average officer again).

I won't even get into the kB issue...:)
 
I'm not in law enforcement. In fact, I'm in law evasion (I'm a criminal defense lawyer). That being said, I think that the .45 is generally a better round than the 9mm. It's bigger and heavier and will make a bigger hole. However, you can put a whole lot more 9's into your average gun than .45's. Would you rather have 7-8 rounds of .45 or 15 rounds of 9? That's really a judgment call. The same can be said in comparing the .40 to the others. I'd feel perfectly well armed with any of them.
 
I know a lot of Kalifornia LEOS and many CHP officers. The vast majority do NOT like the .40! If given the choice, they would carry a personally owned 9mm or .45. They are simply required to carry it by their department. Several CHP friends I have also dislike (in some cases hate) the S&W issue pistol. Again, they have no choice in the matter (since it is chosen by others).
 
slojim,

The most common answer I get from my LEO buddies is that the .40 recoil is sharper than they like. The officers I shoot with are mostly long time .45 guys (a few are 9mm guys) and switching to the snappy .40 affected their performance somewhat. The officers understand the very good effectiveness of the .40, but in general can't group as well with the round.

As far as the S&W pistols and CHP, the majority of CHP officers I shoot with are long time shooters and can tell the difference between an "average" pistol and a very good pistol. The issued S&W autos are lucky to fall into the "average" pistol department.

In general, I tend to agree with some of the officers. I don't like the snap of the .40 either. However, in the right gun (like a CZ) I have found the .40 CAN be very accurate. Before I tried the CZ, I couldn't hit with the .40; however, the CZ 75 is a real tack driver!
 
I carried a Beretta 96FS .40 S&W on police patrol, loaded with 180gr Federal HydraShok. It's a good cartridge with terminal performance similar to 230gr .45 ACP.
 
I feel that the jury is still out on the .40 S&W, as standard issue for all departments.:) When the choice
is left up to individual officer's, I believe the general
concensus would opt for the 9m/m +P+ or the .45ACP. There
are a lot of departments in Po Dunk, U.S.A. that have never
heard of a .40 S&W!!! Personally, I prefer the 230 grain Federal Hydra-Shok fired from a Sig-Sauer P220A.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
The jury is out on your assessment of the .40 Caliber. I too am a .45ACP fan but the .40 caught on like wildfire and is now getting attention in other countries.

The original purpose of the .40 was to have 9mm capacity and .45ACP ballistics. It does just that in the 180 JHP load and performs well in the 155 grain and 165 grain versions to boot.

No flames here but honestly, I don't know of any LEO, when given the choice, who won't opt for the .40 over a 9mm. I know their are exceptions here but I don't know any outside of TFL.

My friends who have opted for the .40 over the 9mm work at the following agencies: Shreveport, LA PD, Little Rock, AR PD, Arkansas Game and Fish, New Orleans PD, FBI and the Caddo Parrish Sherrif's Dept. FWIW.
 
I do not like the 40 S&W for many reasons but many officers FEEL better than with the nine. They think that one millimeter is going to make a difference. I personally think officers shoot the nine a whole lot better then the 40 S&W especially female officers. I here more stories that officers can't qualify with the 40. I had a neighboring town, good size department, trying to qualify their officers with the 40 Glock 22's, it was bad. I gave their officer a Glock 17 and he flew through the course. The problem is that departments have ego's and when something new comes out more powerfull they have to get it to show other departments,look what we have. This thinking is nonsense. If they shoot better with the 9mm or the 45 why change, just to say you guys still use the nine,we have 40's whao!. My department could have gone to any caliber but why change something that works for big ego's. I have to say we use the Winchester 127+P+ and this round is excellent, so I said to myself, good round, good shot placement with ALL officer and enough ammo to get your a$$ out of there in one piece, I think I will let others deal with their ego's. I want my officer to hit and hit alot what their aiming at.
 
Well...I'll be the first LEO that doesn't jump on the .40 bandwagon. My duty weapon is the Beretta 92FS...I've owned this particular gun for about 10 years. I did alot of looking around at ballistics......everything there is and the .40 does not impress me. In my opinion there is a slight edge in ballistics with the .40 but not enough to merit me changing to it. Shoot whichever you shoot best. If its a 9mm, .40, .45......as long as you can hit what you aim at thats all that matters. In my dept we can carry and shoot whatever we want (police chief approved of course). Right now my chief is carrying a Sig...think it might be a .40....not totally sure (he changes alot). My sgt carries a Colt Commander in .45.....I have the 9mm.......other officers carry various calibers. I have shot the .45....fun to shoot...thinking about picking up a Cougar in .45 for no other reason than I want another caliber to play around with.
 
Most of the deputies in my dept. use 9mms or .45s, but we have to buy our own guns. A good many of the deputies simply chose to use a gun they already owned that fell within department regulations; thus lots of Glocks and 1911s in use. Only a few .40s are in use and all are owned by deputies who are shooting enthusiasts, including me. The .40 shooters tend to shoot better than most of the other deputies, but then we are enthusiasts and would shoot better regardless of the weapon or caliber. Too many of the .45 guys still believe that tired old BS like "a 45 hitting him in the arm will pick a man up and spin him around at 100 yards, that's why I carry one." .45 is an excellent caliber (I own a couple and used to carry a 4566), but is also one that tends to gather up a lot of folks with a near-mystical faith in its efficacy. .40 is about as good and the typical gun chambered for it holds a bunch more.
 
My friends dad got a 40 in one of the glocks, sub compact I think, and some of us shot it. We could not tell the difference in recoil between that and the glocks in 9mm. I thought maybe the loads weren't hot but he said they were. I expected a lot more recoil.
 
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