GlockPower
New member
Would I be crazy to use lead non-fmj reloads in a H&K USP .40...or would it be ok as long as I clean it EXTREMELY well right after shooting?
.40 Lead Reloads in H&K UPS 40
- Thread starter GlockPower
- Start date
2500 rnds of lead reloads in my USP9, no problems so far. I clean after every range session, about 150-200 rnds, using a spiral Pachmayr s/s brush, followed by about 6-8 strokes of another s/s bristle brush. then I'm done. 
Avoid cheap plated lead, they're truly a beast to clean.
Hope this helps...
Avoid cheap plated lead, they're truly a beast to clean.
Hope this helps...
There is only minimal danger when shooting lead in any 40S&W, despite the excessive warnings in loading manuals. I have fired thousand of lead bullets through my USP40c with no problems.
The major problems are:
1.) Leading of the barrel, causing higher pressure; and
2.) Leading of the chamber, causing the cartridge to headspace further back in the chamber.
Both of these problems are easily remedied by using hard cast bullets and checking the weapon after each magazine. I make a habit of counting rounds and will look to make sure the last round is in battery and has not started to head space further back; and after I shoot it I look at the barrel for the amount of leading that is occurring. When I feel the leading is getting a little much, I fire 5 jacketed bullets, check, and continue to shoot lead. When I am ready to quit shooting lead, I will fire at least 5-10 jacketed bullets at a fairly rapid pace, and immediately clean the barrel while it is warm (very easy cleaning).
Best wishes, Shoney
The major problems are:
1.) Leading of the barrel, causing higher pressure; and
2.) Leading of the chamber, causing the cartridge to headspace further back in the chamber.
Both of these problems are easily remedied by using hard cast bullets and checking the weapon after each magazine. I make a habit of counting rounds and will look to make sure the last round is in battery and has not started to head space further back; and after I shoot it I look at the barrel for the amount of leading that is occurring. When I feel the leading is getting a little much, I fire 5 jacketed bullets, check, and continue to shoot lead. When I am ready to quit shooting lead, I will fire at least 5-10 jacketed bullets at a fairly rapid pace, and immediately clean the barrel while it is warm (very easy cleaning).
Best wishes, Shoney
Stick with the manufacturer's recommendation and don't shoot lead through a polygonal barreled gun. Remember, metal fatigue is cumulative until failure: while you may not see any problems right away, higher pressures will eventually cause failure. In my opinion, shooting lead against these warnings recklessly puts you and those around you at risk.
larryw:
These "warnings" are a result of KABOOMS in Glock pistols, which unsupported chambers which will fire out of battery.
Analysis of the KB's showed they were either double charges, or the chamber leadding in Glocks and the use of soft lead, not hard cast. Please remember that the 40S&W like most semi-autos head spaces off the front of the case. When the head spacing grove of the chamber leads, the cartridge backs out of the chamber. If the headspacing is excessive and in an unsupported barrel, the discharge of that round can result in case failure. This has not been a problem in weapons or barrels with fully supported chamber that do not fire out of battery.
The implication of potential law suits created the need for the warnings, not the actuality of danger.
Shoney
These "warnings" are a result of KABOOMS in Glock pistols, which unsupported chambers which will fire out of battery.
Analysis of the KB's showed they were either double charges, or the chamber leadding in Glocks and the use of soft lead, not hard cast. Please remember that the 40S&W like most semi-autos head spaces off the front of the case. When the head spacing grove of the chamber leads, the cartridge backs out of the chamber. If the headspacing is excessive and in an unsupported barrel, the discharge of that round can result in case failure. This has not been a problem in weapons or barrels with fully supported chamber that do not fire out of battery.
The implication of potential law suits created the need for the warnings, not the actuality of danger.
Shoney
Nonsense. Glock kBs are a typically result of an unsupported chamber, not leading in polygonal barrels. Lets not muddy the water.
Polygonal rifling doesn't get the same grip on the bullet as conventional rifling. Use of lead bullets in polygonal barrels can result in bore leading, which can cause serious pressure spikes and potential kBs! Lead particles have nowhere to hide in polygonal rifling as in the lands and grooves of conventional rifling. Combined with the tighter seal of the bullet, pressures can increase significantly causing catastrophic failures.
But you do have me on a technicality: you can strip and de-lead your barrel every 10 to 20 rounds and probably safely shoot lead in a polygonal barreled gun.
I've done a LOT of research on this subject. I shoot 2500 to 3000 rounds per month in my USP 45F and would love to save money running lead down the pipe, but my hands and vision are more valuable than the mere $75/month I'd save reloading with lead. And I'm not willing to put those in the lanes near me at risk at any price. I'll say it again: failure to adhere to the manufacturer's warnings is reckless and needlessly puts yourself and those around you at risk.
Polygonal rifling doesn't get the same grip on the bullet as conventional rifling. Use of lead bullets in polygonal barrels can result in bore leading, which can cause serious pressure spikes and potential kBs! Lead particles have nowhere to hide in polygonal rifling as in the lands and grooves of conventional rifling. Combined with the tighter seal of the bullet, pressures can increase significantly causing catastrophic failures.
But you do have me on a technicality: you can strip and de-lead your barrel every 10 to 20 rounds and probably safely shoot lead in a polygonal barreled gun.
I've done a LOT of research on this subject. I shoot 2500 to 3000 rounds per month in my USP 45F and would love to save money running lead down the pipe, but my hands and vision are more valuable than the mere $75/month I'd save reloading with lead. And I'm not willing to put those in the lanes near me at risk at any price. I'll say it again: failure to adhere to the manufacturer's warnings is reckless and needlessly puts yourself and those around you at risk.
I don't have engineering degree nor am I related to H or K so, if their manual says no lead, to me, it's no lead. I do what I can to maintain my guns as best I can...use quality solvents, lubes, accessories.
Hey, your pistol, shoot what you want, just don't go bitching about a crappy warranty if HK USA refuses to repair your weapon if any goes wrong w/ it after shooting lead.
Hey, your pistol, shoot what you want, just don't go bitching about a crappy warranty if HK USA refuses to repair your weapon if any goes wrong w/ it after shooting lead.
larryw:
Your first rebuttle paragraph, you agree with me. In your second you contradict your own first paragraph statements??????????
Read the facts, your contradictory OPINIONS are not valid. This conversation is on 40S&W not 45.
My facts are correct, are supported by the KB investigations, and I stand by them.
regards, Shoney
Your first rebuttle paragraph, you agree with me. In your second you contradict your own first paragraph statements??????????
Read the facts, your contradictory OPINIONS are not valid. This conversation is on 40S&W not 45.
My facts are correct, are supported by the KB investigations, and I stand by them.
regards, Shoney
Sorry Shoney, skipped a thought mid-sentence: after long weekends I really need that DWIM (do what I mean) button on my keyboard.
Glock kBs are a result of unsupported chambers. The recommendation of not shooting lead in polygonal barrels is not simply legal weaseling. The two issues are not related.
HKs have fully supported chambers and don't suffer from Glock's propensity to blow up (flame suit on
), yet HK also tells me not to run lead down the pipe on polygonal barreled guns. But they also say that in traditional rifling, lead is fine (ignoring the health consequences of inhalation of airborne lead particles). These are the same guys who built the gun and tested its failure points. I'll take their word for it over anecdotal information based on small, unscientific samples.
I think it is silly (criminal?) to put yourself and those around you at risk of serious bodily injury in the quest to save a few pennies a round. There are many similarly priced, accurate, recommended alternative loads.
Since when did violating a gun manufacturer's recommendation become responsible gun ownership?
I don't intend this to be a battle, I however strongly disagree with your point of view.
Stay safe and regards,
Larry
Glock kBs are a result of unsupported chambers. The recommendation of not shooting lead in polygonal barrels is not simply legal weaseling. The two issues are not related.
HKs have fully supported chambers and don't suffer from Glock's propensity to blow up (flame suit on
), yet HK also tells me not to run lead down the pipe on polygonal barreled guns. But they also say that in traditional rifling, lead is fine (ignoring the health consequences of inhalation of airborne lead particles). These are the same guys who built the gun and tested its failure points. I'll take their word for it over anecdotal information based on small, unscientific samples.I think it is silly (criminal?) to put yourself and those around you at risk of serious bodily injury in the quest to save a few pennies a round. There are many similarly priced, accurate, recommended alternative loads.
Since when did violating a gun manufacturer's recommendation become responsible gun ownership?
I don't intend this to be a battle, I however strongly disagree with your point of view.
Stay safe and regards,
Larry
Strapped with HKs
New member
Page 20 of the USP compact owners manual clearly states:
"WARNING Heckler and Koch specifically disclaims any responsibility for any damage or injurythat should occur because of, or as a result of the use of faulty, remanufactured or reloaded (hand loaded) ammunition or of cartridges other than those for which the pistol was originally chambered for."
This is the link to the .pdf file which is the manual
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/pdf/uspc_man.pdf
Hmmm - I've looked through my manual pretty thoroughly and I couldn't find anything specifically mentioning using lead (other than the standard "no reloads" that pretty much all manufacturers put in). I could have sworn it was in there, but maybe it was just something I picked up. I did, however, try 20 rounds through my USP tactical once - when I got home to clean it, I was very surprised to find what I would describe as "chunks" of lead in the bore. Real pain to clean and likely a danger as well. These weren't my reloads (but were from a trusted source...), so I'm not certain what exactly they were composed of. Perhaps a harder alloy would be fine, but after dropping all the $$$ on a H&K it seems silly not to spring the little more on FMJ bullets if you reload.
Rocko
Rocko
I’m familiar page 20 of the USP manual. It covers cracked, split, dirty, corroded cases, improperly seated projectiles and /or primers, damaged projectiles, foreign and /or outdated military surplus, corrosive primer and /or propellant. It also covers exposure to oil, grease, water, sunlight, and it covers ammo for submachine guns. A very thorough list of what not to shoot, but it does not say anything about lead! Only remanufactured and reloaded ammo. All gun companies have the same warning. Does this mean that I should not shoot lead out of my S&W M-29 or my Colt GM?
I have had nothing but trouble with soft bullets in my USP9c. I've used Berry's plated rounds and Precision Bullets' polymer coated lead rounds and they both keyhole unless I load them at the lower limit of functioning for the gun.
centralpadoug
New member
Whew...lots of opinions! I can't speak to the .40usp, but can say that I have well over 10K hardcast lead from Precision down the tube of my USP .45 and have had no problems. Cleaning is a breeze (i usually get around to cleaning the gun after 3-400 rounds, and I find no unusual deposits in the barrel.
Hard to believe that 10K would be shear luck.
Hard to believe that 10K would be shear luck.
It's funny how my wife and I have shot over 150K rounds these last two years using 180-grain moly-coated lead bullets for the 40 S&W and never a problem with reliability or accuracy. She uses an HK USP and a Glock 22 and I use a P16 Limited and a SV single stack for IDPA and IPSC competition.
I used to be very meticulous with cleaning my gun using the latest high tech cleaning solvents and oils but since I switched to Vihtavouri N320 for 40 S&W loads I only run a bore snake through the barrel and spray it down liberally with WD-40 wiping the surface with a rag and using an old toothbrush for any deposits that could be found in the ramp, slide or inside the frame. I then lubricate with sewing machine oil. BTW, these cleaning/lubricating materials can be purchased anywhere in the world.
I used to be very meticulous with cleaning my gun using the latest high tech cleaning solvents and oils but since I switched to Vihtavouri N320 for 40 S&W loads I only run a bore snake through the barrel and spray it down liberally with WD-40 wiping the surface with a rag and using an old toothbrush for any deposits that could be found in the ramp, slide or inside the frame. I then lubricate with sewing machine oil. BTW, these cleaning/lubricating materials can be purchased anywhere in the world.
hitnthexring
New member
I'd have to agree with LarryW. Why risk your hands & eyes to save a few cents??? I shoot lead in 45 ACP all the time - in my S&W Mod. 625 REVOLVER. In an auto, the lead can get into the firing pin channel & other hidden areas where it could interfere with functioning.