380 loads too hot!!!!

P

Prof Young

New member
Loaders:
I found a formula on handloads.com using 100gn fmj 380 bullets and 3.9 to 4.0 gns of Unique. So I loaded some at 4.0 gn. TALK ABOUT A HOT LOAD. I've only shot about half of them and will disassemble the rest. (Am shooting these out of a sig p238.) Anyway, I made some up at 3.8, 3.6, 3.4 3.2 and 3.0gns of Unique. 3.8 was still pretty hot. Everything shot well all the way down to the 3.0. 3.0 seemed the most accurate. Interesting stuff.

Thoughts and comments.

Live well and be safe,
Prof Young
 
Comment:

I see that the absent minded professor forgot to buy a reloading manual. If obtained he might have noticed that the Lyman manual shows 3.1 grains Unique as maximum for a 95 grain bullet. ;) Did he remember to get a bullet puller for disassembling the rounds?
 
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There is published data for the .380 using a 100g and Unique at or above 4.0g's. I would venture a guess and say it's not "Bad" data but it surly is not a good starting load.

It sure is a hot .380
 
Prof, I'm little confused.

You loaded up .380s with 3.0 - 4.0/Unique/100FMJ, and you started shooting the hottest loads first? I think I mighta gone from lower to higher charge, to see if I was beginning to see problems earlier, at a lower charge.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "Everything shot well all the way down to the 3.0.", but it suggests (to me, anyway) that you started with shooting the 4.0/Unique/100 FMJ loads first, then went to the next lowest charge, etc. Please tell me you didn't do that?

ADDENDUM: MY data show the 4.0/Unique/100FMJ load to be AT maximum, but not OVER maximum. In either case, it is a load to be approached with due caution. You may find that 3.6/Unique/100FMJ gives a reasonable approximation of factory fodder. Naturally, if you are shooting these reloads from a .380 with a locking breech, you have a slightly more broad margin of safety, but I advise caution.

My participation in a project hot-loading a .380 from a locking-breech Llama (back when an incompetent peanut farmer was wrecking my country) often yielded "exciting" but not always "thrilling" results. It was an excellent teaching tool for a young reloader.
 
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Thanks and . . .

Thanks for the thoughts and info.
I do have an inertia bullet puller.
I get my formulas from my lee manual or handloads.com and double/triple check the data to make sure I'm not over the maximum powder weight. I check my powder weight multiple times as I load. In this case it was just too much for comfortable shooting of that little gun.
So much to learn and so much fun in the process.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

P.S. I used to think the "absent minded" part of being a professor was just a mythical stereotype until I became one. You can ask my students. They will tell you. Needless to say, I'm careful to set that part of my brain aside when I'm at the loading bench.
 
When pulling bullets, the lighter ones do not generate all that much inertia and can be more difficult to extract. Keep in mind the correct usage of the inertia puller: after striking on a hard surface (like on a 4x4 block and striking in line with the grain), do not use like a hammer, but instead let it rebound freely on its own (while still holding on of course), which contributes to the inertia.
 
I'm not a 380 reloader so my post may be worthless to you (but I have reloaded 79,768 handgun rounds :rolleyes:)

For my personal reloading data I never use the two sources you mentioned. Lee has an interesting "How To" section but I've found the load data (comprised from many sources) to be lacking. And, no matter the reputation, I use no data from anyone online except powder manufacturers. I also pay no attention to any forum load data, gun counter clerks, pet loads website, range rat, or gun shop guru. For 30 years I have gotten load data from published reloading manuals and have never had a problem when I use that data. I would suggest a Lyman's 49th for "generic" loading (jacketed and lead) and Hornady's manual for using jacketed bullets. Until you get your "degree" in reloading, stick with published reloading manuals (they never crash and they have no batteries to die), start low and work up (work up if you feel it's necessary to go "hotter") and stay below max....

Go slow, double check everything, and most important have fun...:D
 
Impressive . . .

Mikld:
I'm impressed with both the number and that you know the number.
Bravo!

Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
I pulled out my Speer #11 and it shows 3.8 - 4.0 grains of Unique with a 115 fmj. You did not post any photos of the expended cases so how do we know that you were shooting overloads....could just be that Prof Young is a wimp.

I reload for .380 but use Red Dot and 231.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


ProfYoung,

What is the bullet's seating depth?

Seating depth = Standard case length + Bullet length - COL

This can vary pressure quite a bit in such a short case.

That said, neither QuickLOAD nor extrapolating from Alliant's data suggest this is a particularly hot load. Have you double-checked your scale? How full does the case look as compared to the seating depth? In other words, if you look at the height of the powder column in the case, does it exceed where the bottom of the seated bullet will be? As near as I can tell, either in QuickLOAD or from Alliant's data for a 95 grain bullet, you should be able to charge the case with Unique about level with the base of the bullet before it goes over-pressure if the bulk density is 0.593 gm/cc as QL has it. You do not want it compressed, however.
 
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According to the three sources I just looked at, 4.0gr Unique with 100gr FMJ is not max in .380ACP...
Click to expand...
Seating depth can make a big difference in .380 Auto.

Looking solely at powder charge and general bullet type/weight isn't as useful as with some other (more forgiving) cartridges.
 
P.S. I used to think the "absent minded" part of being a professor was just a mythical stereotype until I became one.
Click to expand...

I'm not a professor, but I DO suffer from inconvenient bouts of "absent minded". In fact, Prof. Young, I THINK that I mighta seen you at one of the "absent minded persons" support groups... We meet whenever we remember to show up...

What they're telling you about seating depth is exactly right.

The other aspect about .380 reloading is that recoil from hot loads USUALLY makes the reloader's shooting hand quit before the pistol does. 4 decades ago, when we were trying to turn a locked-breech Llama .380 into a 9mm (or a semi-automatic recoil operated grenade, whichever came first) the running joke was deciding who would spend the next week with their hand in a cast, not from the pistol coming apart, but from he recoil of the (VERY) hot loads. Everytime we touched off the pistol, it felt like we'd been hit in the palm of our hand by a heavy ballpeen hammer. e None of us owned a Ransom rest, though the more innovative members of the project attempted to fashion one, several times. Invariably, THEY quit (shook loose) before anyone's shooting hand did.

There's a very VERY knowledgeable gent on here, whose handle is "Clark". Ask him for a "Reader's Digest" version of his experimentations with the .380 & 9x19mm.
 
It's better to be . . .

Dear Hartcreek:
Well, I think it's better to be a wimp then an (insert crude word for butt hole here)! But that's just my opinion.

Everyone else live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
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Just because you do not know what you are doing Prof Young and are to lazy to post the photos of your ejected cases. Over pressures are easy to tell by looking at the cases and 4 gains of Unique in a .380 with a 100 grain bullet is NOT an over load so either you can not measure your seating depth wit a pair of calipers to get OAL and you are seating way to deep or you are a wimp.......just that simple.
 
Name calling doesn't contribute to political or firearm discussions.

I load for my wife's P238 with 3.1 grains of Unique and a 100 grain plated RN bullet, at OAL 0.99. Very comfortable to shoot, and no function problems at all. Fine for plinking. If you want to mimic common factory loads, you need to run it up by half a grain or so.
 
My powder throw does not meter unique very well. I would not use this powder for upper end loads in such a small case. I would use Bullseye, Accurate #2,#5 , W-231/HP-38, Ramshot Zip these powders meter well for me.
 
Hartcreek,

You are oversimplifying. We don't know the seating depth because we don't know the bullet length or COL. Nor do we know the burn rate of Prof Young's particular lot of Unique. These factors can turn what you are suggesting on its ear. This may be a simple example of why we work loads up again when we change component lots. In any case, please omit personal characterizations. Guns are indifferent to them and they contributes no useful content to the discussion. The world's biggest jerk can have a great load and vice versa. The jerk element has no effect on the validity of the load. Please see the board conduct rules.
 
For what it may be worth:

Round: .380 ACP
Firearm: SIG P238 (2-3/4" barrel)
OAT: 75F
Bullet: Win. 95 grain FP-FMJ
Powder: Unique (charges thrown, not trickled).
Primer: CCI #500
Brass: mixed headstamp
COAL: 0.964" (from memory; if need be I can look this up).

Code: 
Charge    Mean     St.Dev. (A)    CoVar
3.4 gr.      905       27.8             3.07%
3.6 gr.      929       19.7             2.12%
3.8 gr.      968       23.0             2.38%

For comparison: Federal AE 95 gr. RN-FMJ:
              889        5.72             0.64%

I attribute the SDs of the handloads to variability of thrown Unique charges. To the extent I could tell (despite excellent sights and trigger, the P238 is a short range pistol), there was no difference in the accuracy between any of the loads. All loads functioned 100%
 
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