.380 ACP

S

SDforce

New member
What are your opinions on this round for off-duty/back-up carry?

Which would be better route:

1) Beretta 92fs as a duty weapon with a Sig 232 in .380 as back up and off duty.

2) Beretta 92fs on duty with a 5 shot S&W Airlite .38+p revolver as back up and a Sig 239 in 9mm for off duty.

I've always thought of the .380 as a mouse gun, but I want your intelligent opinions.
Thanks.
 
SDforce,
It looks like you will carry the Beretta as a duty weapon. How about this. The 92FS as a primary, and the new Beretta 9000S as a back up. It is chambered in 9x19mm, and may just accept full size 92FS mags the same way that the Glock 26 accepts Glock 17 and 19 mags. I think that this a better deal than straping yourself to a mouse. ;)

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Yeah, I got a permit to carry,it's called the friggin Constitution.---Ted Nugent

"Glock 26: 17 rounds of concealed carry DEATH comming your way from out of nowhere!!! THAT'S FIREPOWER, BABY!!!"
 
Thanks for the info. I'll look into it. I'm not sure if the 9000S is on the approved list or not, but it sounds look a good idea.
 
SDforce: I'm not a big fan of the .380s out there, mainly because they are not size efficient. The Sig 232 is a fine gun, but the Kahr MK9 is smaller and has the power of 9mm. I think the S&W revolver is a good idea - more power than a .380. I just don't see the point of getting a 232 when you can get a 9mm which is smaller.

I have a Sig P239 in .40. It's a decent gun, but not very size efficient. The Kahr K40 is significantly smaller and easier to conceal.

Also, the operating controls on the Sig are different than those on your Beretta. The Sig has a decocker only (no safety). More importantly, the control farthest to the rear on the Sig is the slide stop, whereas the control farthest to the rear on the Beretta is the safety/decocker.

You might also consider Glock 26/27, used S&W 3953, etc.

Jared
 
I think the .380 makes a decent defense round. Remember, it will be used at close range when there just isn't any other option. If you do your part, it will take care of business.
I also agree that there are many more size effcient 9mms out there. I see no point in carrying a .380 that is as large or larger than a 9mm.
But, there are some good .380s out there that are smaller and easier to carry than a compact 9. The Colt Mustang is a good example. I don't think there is any 9mm as small as it and its much more comfortable to carry and easier to conceal than a five shot snubbie revolver. The locked breech design also takes the bite out of the recoil making it a very controlable little gun. It also comes in the Pocketlite version to provide a very light weight gun.
I'm certian that there are other small .380s out there that would suit your needs, I just can't think of them right now.
Of course, it's hard to knock the tried and true S&W J-frame .38 Spl.
Take your time, do some research and find a gun that fits your needs and you're comfortable with.

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
 
.380 is not very accurate and only effective to about 15 yards. 100 gr. is pretty much top end on bullets. These days the J-Frame revolver is available in .357 magnum. That's a serious tactical option. The 38 Special is a very accurate round, provides 158 gr. bullets, and can be loaded +P. In semi-autos, there are numerous 9mm guns that are only slightly larger than a .380.

I like the .380 for "attending the opera" and other applications where a small, discreet gun is appropriate. But I think the .380 comes up short as a duty back-up.
 
I own a sig 232 and find that it is almost as accurate as my full size sigs. I can hit with it at 25 yards and would not want to be on the receiving end, even at 25 yards. A 102 grain bullet moving at over 900fps won't lose too much in 75 feet. Regarding 9mm in the same size gun, either they are heavy ie: the Kahrs (except the P9) or you have to work on them and hope they will be reliable ie: the Kel-Tec. The sig 232 is thin, relatively light and is a high quality handgun. I wouldn't shoot one without the rubber Hogue grips, the recoil is sharp. I'm aware of two shooting in the county I live in with .380's. One involved a law enforcement person who came how to find bad guys in his house. He shot two men, one died on the scene the other fled with a hit in the leg and was soon caught. By the way in this shooting the gun was a sig 230. The second incident involved a man sitting in a car and pointing a .380 at a friend who was in a phone both. He thought it wasn't loaded, fired one shot and killed his buddy. Placement is everything.The sig has a good single action pull lighter than any of the 9MM's I see mentioned. Try one out if you can but I would not cross it off my list as a back-up if I were you.
 
You're in the same boat as me, it seems. I am a LEO on a department with a fairly restrictive 'approved list' of off-duty/backup weapons. Basically, anything by S&W is allowed, as long as it shoots .45, 9mm or .38 spl. A few other brands and rounds are allowed (.357, .380, .32 and .25), but thats about it.

Off-duty I carry either my duty cannon, the 4506-1 or my Sig-Sauer P232 in .380. I'm very happy with the Sig. VERY happy.

As an on-duty backup I have a S&W 642- a J frame .357 with enclosed hammer. I like it as well.

Why different guns for off-duty and backup? Because they serve different purposes. The J-frame is a no-frills pocket cannon. Nothing to snag, a one-finger malfunction drill, and plenty of power. Only 5 shots, though, and accuracy is iffy, but this is a backup gun. If I'm pulling it, something has gone extremely wrong and probably gone wrong very close to me indeed. I consider it the ideal backup gun.

On the other hand the Sig is accurate, ergonomic, powerful enough (though admittedly on the low end) and carries more rounds and reloads quicker.

Naturally, they can be swapped at need.

Why not a S&W auto that will take the 4506's mags? I considered it, but in the end, I cannot stand S&W autos. Their ergonomic engineers were on drugs and using crayons when they designed the standard semi-auto grip/frame style. If you like the Beretta's style, you might consider that option.

FWIW,
Mike

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
 
I have shot .380s off the bench at 100 yards and many do just as will or better than some of the 9mms. The thought that a .380 is not accurate seems silly to me unless it is a 75 buck POS. In most cases they will out shoot the made in USA 9mms that are a .380 load anyway. I would think a good .380 with proper ammo would beat defending your ass with a screwdriver. Its not a .357 mag but sure beats packing a Sig 229 .40 brick. I have yet to see a 9mm that is as small or as compact as a .380 also. The Sig 232 is a HUGE .380 and also has a heal lock for the mag.
 
I just wanted to thank you guys for all the helpful responses. I've always been told that the .380ACP round is a "go home and get a 9mm" round but I wanted your opinions.

If I went over to CA Highway Patrol I'd carry the Glock 27 as a backup gun in my vest. The .40 cal ammo would be interchangeable with that of the duty issue S&W 4006. I'd have no problem carrying the G27 off duty either.

With San Diego PD, Glocks are prohibited. The only approved guns are from Beretta, Ruger, S&W and Sig Sauer and in 9mm only (unless you choose to go with a revolver, .38 special). The off-duty list includes those and the Walther PPK and Colt Revolvers. Can't go bigger than a 9mm (9mm, .380ACP, .22 cal only approved rounds). Weak huh?

[This message has been edited by SDforce (edited September 03, 2000).]
 
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