.380 ACP - Does It Expand ?

M

Mike H

New member
Guys,

I'm currently wrestling with a problem over ammo selection for my .380. I started off believing in the 90gr Hydrashok, then switched allegiance to the heavier 102 gr Rem Golden Sabre as I'd heard that it exhibits far superior penetration, but it is a little slower. Then I remembered the whole .38 Spl hubbub over non expanding jacketed rounds that ended with the introduction of the Nyclad (for those who didn't like plain lead HP's in the first place), noting the broad similarities between .380 ACP and .38 Spl and then putting 2 & 2 together to make 5 I now have major doubts about all the .380 JHP's.

I can find no reliable source of info. on the best performers in this bracket, or if indeed we .380 'ers are being conned by Federal, Remington, Winchester and all into thinking that their bullets actually work as advertised. And before anyone says it, I know that .380 is marginal and that they wouldn't go with less than 9mm +P, but hey, my wife bought my Bersa and it's a sweet little carry piece when I feel the need, so caliber discussions end there if you get my drift. Guidance whether anecdotal or actual would be appreciated,
Thanks in advance,



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Mike H
 
Hello. I suspect that the .380acp "high performance" loads on the market now do expand...at least to some degree in tissue.
Whether or not this is more than mere deformation, I cannot say, but informal testing in wetpack (supersaturated newspapers) showed classic expansion with Hornady 90 gr XTPs loaded at about 920 ft/sec as well as Sierra's PJHP. I've not tested Remington's Golden Saber, but since CorBon's Plus P 380acp 90 gr JHP uses a Sierr at about 1050 ft/sec, I suspect it'll expand nicely. Frankly, I, too, believe that this caliber could benefit from the "nyclad treatment". Best.
 
The degree of expansion depends on the bullet (hollow point vs fmj) and what it hits. If you shoot a 380 hydra-shock into ballistic gelatin, it will expand and mushroom.
 
Why would you want expansion with this bullet? Even with a FMJ you're going to be pushing the limit for decent penetration.
 
Hello,

Although I'm not a .380 fan, at a recent LFI class with Massad Ayoob someone asked about the best load for the .380.

Mas replied that he did not have a great deal of confidence in the caliber given the number of failures to stop he had witnessed on the street and in the slaughter house. With that said, he indicated that the Federal Hydra-Shok was about the best performing JHP in the caliber in his experience.

Hope this helps.

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- Anthony (the crazy Italian with a .41 Magnum)

"Civilized people are taught by logic, barbarians by necessity, communities by tradition, and the lesson is inculcated even in wild beasts by nature itself. They learn that they have to defend their own bodies and persons and lives from violence of any and every kind by all the means within their power."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero
 
.380 90 Grain Hydra shock true story:

A few years ago onn an antelope hunt in wyoming I popped a doe at aboubut 250 yards with my trusty savage 30-06, I could see her limping off fetr the hit and could see red streaking down the opposite front leg from my shot she doubled over and flopped down.

Encouraged and happy as to her quick demise i unloaded and safed my rifle and started pacing off the distance to the target. I absently drew my PA-63 380 on the way over alnd loaded it "just in case" i needed a coup de grace. much to my suprise when i had counted off 245 yards, the damn doe jumped up and ran as if UNWOUNDED.

All I had in my hand was the 380. Bang Bang BANG. Then she dropped like a rock. Three shots three hits One handed at a moving target at 5-7 yards.

Now for the bad news:

The first shot hit the right rear hip penetrating 3 inches of meat and shattering on the hip bone into a BUNCH of tiny sharp fragments. She then reversed direction.

Shot number 2 hit her upper left rear leg, grazing the bone and was under the hide inside of the leg in fragments that had partially penetrated the surface. Penetration was 3 inches or so.

Shot #3, the killing shot passed between her ribs and deflated her left lung and stopped in her heart.. again the bullet was in tiny copper fragments. Penetration in this case was 6-8 inches.

It turns out my rifle shot ahd only CREASED the doe's sternum, stunning her (burned the hide off her sternum) and hit her opposte leg above the joint creating a nasty red but inneffectual wound (no bone hit)

Aside from wasting a great deal of meat (that 380 hydra shock destroyed a LOT of tissue) i learned the following things:

1. I could shoot better with a pistol than I thought. 3 shot and 3 hits was better than i expected and the critter was moving FAR faster than a person (practice pays off). It was point shooting barely using the sights as i recall.

2. heavy bone such as a leg bone or pelvis made the lil 90 grain round expand RAPIDLY and therefore DID NOT penetrate as much. The one beteween the ribs preformed flawlessly. The bullet that was the most intact (#2) was fragmented in a circle the size of a penny. NONE of the bullets remained intact.

3. I forgot i was shooting down hill at long range and did not elevate my sights or similarly made some error in the shot placement with my rifle. With a clean shot through the body that antelope would NEVER have gotten up.

I'm not sure how people and antelope compare, but i'd say that the hydra shock indeed destroys a lot of tissue.. but the bullet MUST penetrate to a vital organ for the bullet to do its work. While antelope ribs are very thin, human ribs MIGHT open up the hydra shock rapidly.. and there for not penetrate enough to be lethal. heavy bone like legs, upper arms, pelvis would probably deflect the bullet and cause it to vaporize leaving an extensive tissue damage wound but not neceearily a lethal one.

STILL the round did the job, taking down an essentially unwounded 150 pound animal with 1 shot in the torso.

I've shot hydra shocks in that gun almost exclusively and its what i carry when I take it backpacking or in a pocket as a finishing gun.

Hope the information was useful.

Dr.Rob
 
From Handguns, May 98:

Beretta 4 inch, Colt 2.4 inch:

Corbon 90 JHP, 10.8/.60, 9.8/.59

Fed 90 HS, 9.8/.70, 15/.42

Rem 102 GS, 10/.62, 10.3/.65

Win 85 ST, 8/.61, 9.4/.53

From FBI (Walther PPK 3 inch):

Win ST, 7.9/.58

Speer Gold Dot, 9.3/.59

Fed HS, 6.7/.66



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