.38 ?
- Thread starter skt666
- Start date
I'm beginning to hate this question. How much is enough? There are too many examples of the vaunted .45 acp being inadequate, and stories of .22 lr being effective. (Well, not too many for the .22, unless a professional sniper is involved. LOL)
That said, theoretically, the +p would be better. However, if you are finding the recoil to be hard enough to handle that it is effecting your accuracy, stick with the regular loads. Placement is always more important than power.
But you probably knew that already.
That said, theoretically, the +p would be better. However, if you are finding the recoil to be hard enough to handle that it is effecting your accuracy, stick with the regular loads. Placement is always more important than power.
But you probably knew that already.
Mike Irwin
Staff
You're asking the wrong question.
The question you should be asking, of yourself, is "How well can I shoot my gun in a high-stress situation? Can I hit the target with the rounds that I have?"
If you can't hit the target, it doesn't much matter how effective the rounds are that you're carrying.
The question you should be asking, of yourself, is "How well can I shoot my gun in a high-stress situation? Can I hit the target with the rounds that I have?"
If you can't hit the target, it doesn't much matter how effective the rounds are that you're carrying.
Yankee Doodle
New member
OK, although I am new to the forum, I thought I would stick in my 2 cents worth. As a retired police firearms instructor, I feel that I may be able to shed a little light on this never ending debate.
My first duty gun was a Smith model 10, loaded with Dept issued 158 gr. swchp +p (Winchester). A very effective load, and easy to control in a 4" revolver.
My 2nd duty gun was a Smith mod 36. Same load. I know that this is not reccommended by Smith, but I personnaly know of no problems concerning its use in this gun. Practice with target loads. qualify with street loads.
I now carry a Smith 642 loaded with 110 gr. sjhp (Remington).
As you can see, I have no problem using the old .38spl. for self defense. As a matter of fact, the theory of the "one shot stop" is, in my humble opinion, a joke. If you are willing to fire only one round in defense of your life, get a Barrett .50. Since the purpose of any self defense gun is to STOP, rather than to kill, or wound, you had better get in the mind set required. You keep shooting until the threat is eliminated. Subject down and no longer a threat, or disarmed.
Sorry for the lecture, but I see no reason to consider the old .38 anything but adequate.
My first duty gun was a Smith model 10, loaded with Dept issued 158 gr. swchp +p (Winchester). A very effective load, and easy to control in a 4" revolver.
My 2nd duty gun was a Smith mod 36. Same load. I know that this is not reccommended by Smith, but I personnaly know of no problems concerning its use in this gun. Practice with target loads. qualify with street loads.
I now carry a Smith 642 loaded with 110 gr. sjhp (Remington).
As you can see, I have no problem using the old .38spl. for self defense. As a matter of fact, the theory of the "one shot stop" is, in my humble opinion, a joke. If you are willing to fire only one round in defense of your life, get a Barrett .50. Since the purpose of any self defense gun is to STOP, rather than to kill, or wound, you had better get in the mind set required. You keep shooting until the threat is eliminated. Subject down and no longer a threat, or disarmed.
Sorry for the lecture, but I see no reason to consider the old .38 anything but adequate.
Peter M. Eick
New member
AMEN!
Thanks for a bit of history and a bit of sanity!
Thanks for a bit of history and a bit of sanity!
Dusty Miller
New member
OK, I'll go along with the "use what you can shoot" school of thought. I'm pretty darned good with a 44 mag. and 45 ACP and I'd be a fool to settle for a 38 Special unless that's all that was handy. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that folks like myself are much more likely to survive a shootout with a BG than the guy pack'n the 38.
There is nothing wrong with a 38 special, provided you practice with it and can put the bullets in COM consistently. You'll also need to practice reloading the revolver with either speed strips or speedloaders to the point that you can carry with confidence.
MY greatest bit of fun is to go to the local rod & gun clubs and practice with my 3" M-66 and speedloaders. The uber-tactical youngsters with Glocks, Sigs, and hi-caps snicker when they see me with a fogey gun and gear. But I assure you the snickering stops when the gun roars and everything goes into an X ring in very tight groups, whether it is +P 38s or fuill-bore mag rounds.
My normal carry gun is the 3" 66 and I either have it loaded with 158 LSWCHP or 150 Magnum Starfire JHP. I have no concerns for my ability to resolve any unpleasantnes that wanders my way with a 38 +P.
MY greatest bit of fun is to go to the local rod & gun clubs and practice with my 3" M-66 and speedloaders. The uber-tactical youngsters with Glocks, Sigs, and hi-caps snicker when they see me with a fogey gun and gear. But I assure you the snickering stops when the gun roars and everything goes into an X ring in very tight groups, whether it is +P 38s or fuill-bore mag rounds.
My normal carry gun is the 3" 66 and I either have it loaded with 158 LSWCHP or 150 Magnum Starfire JHP. I have no concerns for my ability to resolve any unpleasantnes that wanders my way with a 38 +P.
Dusty Miller
New member
Bulldozer, I think the way you are loading that gun is more than adequate given your skill putting the lead where it counts. I don't think the original poster can do that and I'm not sure I could under a high stress situation. If my round does not hit COM I want it to do some damage anyway!!
Shot Placement...Shot Placement....Shot Placement...Oh! Did I mention what happens to you under stress...Cortisol dump..Auditory Exclusion, Loss of fine motor skills, tunnel vision...get a revolver you are comfortable with...and practice ..practice...practice...
In, addition nothing under .38...it's a waste of time..
In, addition nothing under .38...it's a waste of time..
For a .38 special, the 110gr bullet is, IMO, a little "light". If you are in a cold climate this time of year, the heavier clothing might impair the effectiveness of the 110gr HP.
I have and use the Winchester Silvertip 110gr JHP (X38SJHP) for my 649 and recoil is mild. I prefer to use a 125gr +P for serious work and find that the Winchester-USA (USA38JHP) shoots accurately out of the 649. But it is much louder, more flash and recoil is brisk but doesn't require readjusting the grip.
Federal lists the 110gr HydraShok at 1000 fps/244 ft-lbs out of a 4" vented test barrel. I've found the 129gr HydraShok to be more accurate out of my S&W than the 110gr. Federal lists the 129gr @ 950fps with 258 ft-lbs and I'd prefer the heavier bullet for penetration reasons.
The Hornady 125gr is rated at 900fps w/225 ft-lbs.
The Remington 125gr Golden Sabre : 975fps w/264 ft-lbs
I have and use the Winchester Silvertip 110gr JHP (X38SJHP) for my 649 and recoil is mild. I prefer to use a 125gr +P for serious work and find that the Winchester-USA (USA38JHP) shoots accurately out of the 649. But it is much louder, more flash and recoil is brisk but doesn't require readjusting the grip.
Federal lists the 110gr HydraShok at 1000 fps/244 ft-lbs out of a 4" vented test barrel. I've found the 129gr HydraShok to be more accurate out of my S&W than the 110gr. Federal lists the 129gr @ 950fps with 258 ft-lbs and I'd prefer the heavier bullet for penetration reasons.
The Hornady 125gr is rated at 900fps w/225 ft-lbs.
The Remington 125gr Golden Sabre : 975fps w/264 ft-lbs
Technical data comparing the effectiveness of various calibers and cartridges is available at www.ammolab.com; www.tacticalforums.com; www.warrriortalk.com; www.firearmstactical.com; and www.handgunsandammo.com. Just search under .38 special at these sites.
Steve Camp's article, "Have No Faith in Your Handgun Caliber," is a good starting point: http://hipowersandhandguns.com/Have No Faith.htm.
Nowadays ammo makers are designing their service-grade ammunition to exceed FBI criteria the major service calibers. This means adequate personal defense ammunition is available from .38 special on up.
Speer's new 135 grain Gold Dot +p, incidentally, was designed at the request of NYPD for an effective load for BUGs.
Steve Camp's article, "Have No Faith in Your Handgun Caliber," is a good starting point: http://hipowersandhandguns.com/Have No Faith.htm.
Nowadays ammo makers are designing their service-grade ammunition to exceed FBI criteria the major service calibers. This means adequate personal defense ammunition is available from .38 special on up.
Speer's new 135 grain Gold Dot +p, incidentally, was designed at the request of NYPD for an effective load for BUGs.