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38 Super vs 45ACP?
- Thread starter IMTHDUKE
- Start date
Ballistics doesn't really apply. Economics does though. The ACP is available everywhere. The Super is not. Prices aren't very different either, but there are a lot more choices with the .45.
However, cartridge choice is more about how well you can shoot the thing than anything else.
However, cartridge choice is more about how well you can shoot the thing than anything else.
The Super shoots a lot flatter, but that's hardly going to matter unless you're defending yourself across a corn field, or something?
If the Super holds two more rounds than the .45, that might be more important than ballistic considerations.
I like the Super a lot as a competition round, but I still prefer the near guarantee of deep penetration with a heavy .45 bullet, to the might-expand promise of any/every .36" round.
If the Super holds two more rounds than the .45, that might be more important than ballistic considerations.
I like the Super a lot as a competition round, but I still prefer the near guarantee of deep penetration with a heavy .45 bullet, to the might-expand promise of any/every .36" round.
First,I like the 38 Super round.My first 1911 was a Super.I am soon going to build a comp'd one.
I have read,at length,the advice about using factory loads versus handloads for SD.
You are free to disagree,this is not really the place to argue handloads vs factory loads for SD.Its been done.See the sticky threads.
I am simply saying,for myself,I choose to use factory loads for carry.
There is a very limited selection of 38 Super SD loads.
I confess,I have not researched what is actually available.For factory ammo,is there much difference between 9mm +P and 38 Super in available SD loads?
Now,Handloads are a whole new ballgame.With a comp to slow slide velocity,major caliber 1400 fps plus loads are possible in the Super.
I'm just not too sure how a 38 Super race gun works out in court after a SD situation.
FWIW,IMO a ,Hi-cap,double stack race gun in 38Super,or 10 MM loaded with 1450 fps JHP handloads
and a slide mounted mini-optic,heck,add a green laser,....it SHOULD be as legit and stigma free as a J-frame 5 shot 38 spl revolver.
IMO,we SHOULD be able to use whatever is most effective,if we choose to legally carry it.
SHOULD BE.
But,what I have been lead to believe,it is best for ME,if I have to appear in court,is to be conventional.
My defense will be less vulnerable to a hostile prosecutor if I carry a 9mm,or a .40,or a 45 ACP,loaded with whatever the police or Sheriff carries,or equivalent.
It does not have to make sense.It is just the difference between "Should Be" and "What IS "
Having said all that,I'm nuts,too.I might get the 38 Super!!.Check out Tripp Cobra 10 shot mags.
I have read,at length,the advice about using factory loads versus handloads for SD.
You are free to disagree,this is not really the place to argue handloads vs factory loads for SD.Its been done.See the sticky threads.
I am simply saying,for myself,I choose to use factory loads for carry.
There is a very limited selection of 38 Super SD loads.
I confess,I have not researched what is actually available.For factory ammo,is there much difference between 9mm +P and 38 Super in available SD loads?
Now,Handloads are a whole new ballgame.With a comp to slow slide velocity,major caliber 1400 fps plus loads are possible in the Super.
I'm just not too sure how a 38 Super race gun works out in court after a SD situation.
FWIW,IMO a ,Hi-cap,double stack race gun in 38Super,or 10 MM loaded with 1450 fps JHP handloads
and a slide mounted mini-optic,heck,add a green laser,....it SHOULD be as legit and stigma free as a J-frame 5 shot 38 spl revolver.
IMO,we SHOULD be able to use whatever is most effective,if we choose to legally carry it.
SHOULD BE.
But,what I have been lead to believe,it is best for ME,if I have to appear in court,is to be conventional.
My defense will be less vulnerable to a hostile prosecutor if I carry a 9mm,or a .40,or a 45 ACP,loaded with whatever the police or Sheriff carries,or equivalent.
It does not have to make sense.It is just the difference between "Should Be" and "What IS "
Having said all that,I'm nuts,too.I might get the 38 Super!!.Check out Tripp Cobra 10 shot mags.
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Going to buy a Dan Wesson Guardian. What are the pros and cons of a 38 super vs 45acp? I am talking ballistics for ccw, not price of ammo. Thanks
In a lightweight carry gun like the Guardian 38 Super has a distinct advantage IMHO and experience. For the following reasons:
9+1 rounds vs 7 or 8+1 rounds
Recoil, both actual and felt, will be lighter with the 38 Super then the 45acp. This allows for faster follow up shots. Now this will vary by individual on the "felt" part, but in general it is the case particularly with alloy framed guns which tend to "kick" more with the 45acp.
Terminal performance, this is always debatable, I've loaded lswc bullets at 148 gr. that have done 1200 fps from a 4 1/4" Commander barrel. I have confidence in that. A 124 gr. round at over 1350 fps will also work well. It's not that it's better than the 45acp in general, I don't think it is. But it's in the same ballpark and competitive. In an alloy framed package it is effective, it is just about right, possibly a more effective tool than the 45 in that gun.
That's my opinion. It's based on having owned both 38 Super and 45 acp guns in alloy frames currently and in the past.
tipoc
The OP specifically said he was not asking about ammo, price, availability, etc.
But some others have despite that so...
You can read more here on the 38 Super: http://38super.net/
On self defense ammo you can look here...
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...r-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...munition-38-super-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow
There is more if you poke around.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/38-Super/products/300/
https://www.midwayusa.com/38-super/br?cid=21664
tipoc
But some others have despite that so...
You can read more here on the 38 Super: http://38super.net/
On self defense ammo you can look here...
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...r-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...munition-38-super-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow
There is more if you poke around.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/38-Super/products/300/
https://www.midwayusa.com/38-super/br?cid=21664
tipoc
The 38 Super and later 357 mag was developed in the 1920's because 45's weren't getting the job done.
Because .38 Special wasn't getting the job done.
I'm not here to trash the 38 Super.I like it.
The ammo links are for Buffalo Bore and Double Tap. It has limited availability.Cor-Bon,too.No complaint with those.I'm sure these JHP loads work fine if you have them on hand.
Its fair to compare Buffalo Bore and Double tap,etc 9mm ammo,apples to apples..They load 124 gr 9mm to over 1300 fps.
Of the common major brands,they were nearly all FMJ.IMO,I would not choose 38 Super for FMJ performance.
There was a WW Silvertip 124 gr JHP.Great!!. 1240 fps. Effective? Sure!! In a carry gun,is it a significant advantage over a 9mm in a +P that a 1911 can handle? Not a lot.
Myself? Of course I "prefer"the 38 Super over the 9mm. I'm not a flag waving 9mm advocate.
I just shrug and look at practical reality.You have to feed them.
That said,the 1911 slide I will use for my next build says "Colt 38 Super" on the side.Its perfectly OK to choose a 38 Super "Just Because"
Preferences do not require justification
The ammo links are for Buffalo Bore and Double Tap. It has limited availability.Cor-Bon,too.No complaint with those.I'm sure these JHP loads work fine if you have them on hand.
Its fair to compare Buffalo Bore and Double tap,etc 9mm ammo,apples to apples..They load 124 gr 9mm to over 1300 fps.
Of the common major brands,they were nearly all FMJ.IMO,I would not choose 38 Super for FMJ performance.
There was a WW Silvertip 124 gr JHP.Great!!. 1240 fps. Effective? Sure!! In a carry gun,is it a significant advantage over a 9mm in a +P that a 1911 can handle? Not a lot.
Myself? Of course I "prefer"the 38 Super over the 9mm. I'm not a flag waving 9mm advocate.
I just shrug and look at practical reality.You have to feed them.
That said,the 1911 slide I will use for my next build says "Colt 38 Super" on the side.Its perfectly OK to choose a 38 Super "Just Because"
Preferences do not require justification
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I like the DW line of 1911's, I have a Valor myself. I can't get excited about a DW Guardian in 38 Super as a CCW, but there's no prob with that gun in 9mm or .45ACP. The general availability of .38 Super defensive ammo is the basis for my thinking here, not necessarily the cost of .38 Super defensive ammo. IMHO a 9mm Guardian with your favorite defensive ammo would fit the bill as a CCW. Now if you went for a DW Pointman 38 (PM38) intended for range & comp use, now that would a whole different story!
The ammo links are for Buffalo Bore and Double Tap. It has limited availability.Cor-Bon,too.No complaint with those.I'm sure these JHP loads work fine if you have them on hand.
Why wouldn't a person have them on hand if you want them. You can order them and more online, get them at a gunshow or have your local gunatorium order them. If you reload, no issue. You can also get plinking and practice ammo.
Winchester, Remington, Aguila, Armscorp, PMC, Fiocchhi, Wilson, MagTech, Georgia Arms, American Eagle, etc. all sell plinking ammo and Winchester a decent defensive round.
Getting ammo is pretty simple. Don't let that be an obstacle.
There are too many good double stack 9mms to bother with it in the 1911.
Try the Super in that alloy frame. It works well there.
tipoc
Hammerhead
New member
I've had 2-45 1911s and 2-38 Super 1911s. The Supers were far more reliable.