.38 Super for self-defense?

A

Abominable No-Man

New member
When my great-uncle started in law enforcement, he packed a
Colt 1911 chambered for the .38 Super. He passed the gun down to my cousin (he's a few years older than me), who recently
got his CCW, and wants to use it as his carry gun (partly because
it was well-taken care of, partly because he's cheap).

Not too long ago, he asked me what was a good .38 Super
hollowpoint, but I came up dry when I searched around.

But lo and behold, I ran across an EAA witness pistol in .38 Super,
so I'm curious if any of the ammunition companies still load it.

Any info?


ANM
 
YES

Most everyone has one decent HP defense load available. Suggest fast 115g or 124/5g JHP.

I like the cartridge, and its platforms (mine's an EAA Witness).
 
It's a great round

In fact I really like the super. Used it once in a self defence situation that happily did not require me to shoot. Shot some mid sized game with it and it performed well. The ballistics are very close to .357 mag stats. It'll do to ride the river with.
jack
 
Just be advised that if you are gonna hot-rod .38 Super you'd better have a fully supported, ramped-barrel setup if you don't want your gun to blow up... the brass isn't particularly strong. And there is always 9x23 Winchester.
 
Good round ballistically, I've read that its reliability is kind of finicky (I have no experience personally). But I'm curious, how many of the posters here who like the .38 Super don't think much of the .357 Sig?
 
38 Super EAA Witness

I have a 38 Super in EAA Witness and it is a very accurate pistol and a pleasure to shoot. But, a word of warning!!! The owner's manual warns not to use +P ammo. As I reload all my ammo, that is no problem for me because I load for target shooting only
in this caliber.

As far as I know, all factory ammo is either +P or +P+. The EAA has a ramped barrel but I would be leery of shooting that in it as the factory has already told you not to.

I just recently received a Springfield Mil Spec in 38 Super and I really like it. Not as pretty as some but shoots like a dream.
And, it is ramped and will take the hotter ammo.

Semper Fi
 
Super 38 is dandy!

Carried one for years. Foolishly traded it away.

The nonsense about "ramped barrels" and "finicky" comes from IPSC shooters. To "make major" with the Super, you have to overload it. Some guys use small rifle primers to keep from piercing them. The Super 38 so loaded is actually another round; a "+P+ extra".

I shot many "hot" handloads with mine with no problems. Except losing brass in the pucker brush. Sigh. Just keep your loads with the recomendations of the loading manuals.

My favorite factory load was the 115 WW Silvertip load.

Just a bit of history. Originally this round was the .38 ACP, from 1900. Pistol was the 1902 Colt 38 pistol. The .38 ACP was at the time ballistically the same as the 9mm Luger, from the same era.
The case was dimentionally identical to the Super. In 1927, Colt got the bright idea to put the .38 ACP into the Government model, a much more robust pistol than the 1902 pistol. So they upped the pressure level, in effect making it a 38 ACP "+P" and called it Super 38.

So, all Supers are +P in a sense. Your great-uncle's Colt will handle any factory Super round.
At one point, the case headspaced on the semi-rim. Newer barrels headspace on the case mouth. The older barrels sometimes didn't shoot as well as the newer ones. It varies.

If your cousin doesn't like that old worn gun, I'll trade him one nice and shiney for it......
 
MAKING 'MAJOR'

My Redhawk OM says "No Handloads"; screw that.

My 38 Super Witness makes IPSC Major with stock barrel and slide (actually haven't broken ANY of my Witnesses; even my standard 9x19's occassionally go "Major").

NOT RECOMMENDED, just my results.

Your results may vary KB!
 
My father has a SIG in .38 Super and he loves it.

It has less rounds than a "wonder nine" but will do the job.

The super has a large following in south/central america since you can't own a weapon in "military caliber".

It is a great round when loaded correctly in a good weapon!
 
.38 Super is all shown as +P now to keep folks from putting it in the ancient .38 Autos.

My Witness is fully supported and I'm not worried about the "hot" Remington or Winchester ammo. That stuff is so scorchin'. :rolleyes: EAA just puts that in to cover their butts.

Heck, I had an EAA .38 S barrel rechambered to 9x23 and the pistol is doing fine. I dropped in a heavier recoil spring (22lbs I'm using right now) and I have an occassional FTE in 9x23 (about 1%), but the pistol is not showing any ill signs of a beating after about 500-750 rounds in 9x23 in either JSP or STHP.

As far as defensive stuff .38 S, check out CorBon's loadings. Some pretty hot stuff.

Georgia Arms has a 147gr loading that moves by their stats at 1200fps. That's a good velocity to have in that bullet weight if you ask me.

Check out www.georgia-arms.com and then goto pistol ammo. For 26.50 you can get 100 rounds. That's not too bad and GA ammo has proven to be quite nice. The only complaint I have is that it doesn't like the Para/Clark ramp style of my P16.10 and a heavy recoil spring, there's a bit of bullet setback with a 24lb and SERIOUS setback with 26lb spring, but that's it.

.38 S is a great caliber and quite accurate.

Derek
 
Like the 38S info

From a casual observer, thanks for all the informative feedback to the original message. I have been kicking around the purchase of a new gun and the SA 1911A1 in 38 super was on the list of possibilities. I know the IPSC shooters are still hot on the 38 super, although the 40 S&W is making a strong surge towards "the one and only cartridge." My "list" includes the Springfield Armory 1911A1 MilSpec 38super, the EAA Witness in 10mm, the CZ75B in 40S&W, and the ParaOrdnance P16-40 in 40S&W (to be reamed to 10mm!). I considered the 38 super for use in IPSC Limited 10 classification since the basic mag will hold 10 rounds. Using a 45acp now and debating between a "Fun" gun or a new "Competition" gun.

Great information from everyone, thanks!
 
The 38 Super is a great round. The ballistics on an old box of amo I had (my father's old box) said 1280 fps with 475 ft. lbs......this is for a 130 grain bullet. This is old Western Super X (aka Winchester) ammo.

I sware that the new 130gr FMJ from Winchester is weak compared to this old stuff!!! I only wished I kept a few rounds to chrono. The loading manuals of today don't even go that high for the 130gr bullet now. The new stuff is listed at 1240 and 427.

Corbon is suppose to have a 38 Super load that is equal to their 357 Sig load. Originally the 38 Super (from what I've found out, probably wrong) was suppose to equal the 357 Magnum in it's day.

Aside from switching to the 9x23 (slightly different then the Super case), there is the 38 TJ (38 Todd Jerret) case. It's suppose to have a 9mm rim (no biggy), the outter dimentions of the Super but with the internal design of the 9x23. I figured if I want some 38 Super 'mag' loads, I'd toy w/ this case. If I recall, the cases were made by Hornaday, but I can't recall the place that sells them.
 
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