38 super as a defense round

M

Max007

New member
Hi All,
I'm a NooB here, and have a question.
I'm considering purchasing a pistol chambered for the 38 SUPER.
I have a Kimber TLE 45, which is my favorite, but due to Arthritis, the felt
recoil is starting to become much more noticable.
From what I've read the 38 SUPER surpasses the 9 MM in many ways and
has less felt recoil than the 40 and 45.
If I'm correct in considering the 38 Super, what rounds,and what handguns
would you recommend. I prefer a Commander style 1911, but am open
to all suggestions.
Any and all input will be greatly appreciated, in advanced.
__________________
 
The 1911 pattern pistol is a classic platform for the 38 Super, which is a very capable self defense cartridge. Any good JHP should suffice. I would for sure check Buffalo Bore's website for ultra premium stuff. It would also be quite stout.

The 38 Super has quite a history, and has been settling peoples hash south of the border for decades with very positive results.
 
Illness, injury, hand strength; .38Super...

Before you snag a .38Super and start pretending your Nash Bridges, ;) , I'd stop and think about your hand strength or illness. If your condition gets worse you may have problems holding or firing a semi auto pistol.
I had a few major problems with my strong hand(left) about 6mo ago. I looked into buying a compact 1911a1 9x19mm to use on armed security posts.
My hand problems ended but if they were more serious, I'd use a .380acp, 9mm or maybe a .38spl +P revolver(DA/SA).
A .38Super is ok as a protection or duty round but good factory made loads are not really available compared to the 9mmNATO, .45acp, .357sig, .380acp etc.

ClydeFrog
 
That's actually a good point. The 38Super is very good and there ARE decent factory loads for it, but not a lot. The very best 38Super+P types will have about as much recoil as most 45s:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_72&products_id=366

In 9mm+P from a 1911-sized platform you'd have almost as much power and if you need to you can step it down to standard 9mm without giving up all that much...because very good loads are available for the 9 in either standard or +P, esp. from a decent 4" or better barrel.

(Get into the new range of micro-guns and velocity starts to drop some... but that's not what you're looking at here.)
 
I have had rheumatoid arthritis for 14 years. I also have a Springfield mil-spec
in 38 super. It is far and away my favorite of the 8 handguns I own. Excellent accuracy, reliability and more than enough for self-defense. Georgia Arms sells excellent 38 super ammo (bonded gold dot hollow point @ 1,350 fps).
 
I can't comment on the .38 Super, but since nobody else has said it... Welcome to The Firing Line!

It's a great forum and you'll get lots of good advice mixed in with some general chatter (like this post :)).
 
bonded gold dot hollow point @ 1,350 fps
Click to expand...

That sounds like a lot, and it's a very effective load, but that's also measured from a 5" tube. Bullet weight is 124gr.

http://georgia-arms.com/new38super124grgolddothollowpoint50pk.aspx

(You might note that they're out of it right now...)

From a 5" 1911 barrel you're going to get 1,250fps minimum out of a good 124gr +P load, or the excellent Winchester Ranger 127gr. More than that in some cases.

Yes, you're giving up some power over 38Super - but not a huge amount. What you gain is the ability to back it down to 9mm standard pressure if you're having a "bad wrist day" (seriously) or if matters degrade worse :(. That would not be a good thing, but this same gun in 9mm wouldn't leave you unarmed.

Buffalo Bore also has some 9mm+P+ stuff that makes 1,300fps from a 4" Glock:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=119

You might need a stronger slide spring to cope but now you're really knocking on the 38Super's door...and yet again, as needed, you can throttle it back if you have to.
 
.38Super +P, forum members, calibers...

God bless these firearm message boards. :)
It brings a smile to my face when a member asks a question and posts pop up with all sorts of details.
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but who honestly thinks in 2011, that most(and I mean the general public) ever heard of the .38Super caliber or would say that there are lots & lots of choices re: semi auto pistols or ammunition.

I'd add that the .38Super +P JHP would do well but if a gun owner with medical problems can properly shoot it, they could use a 9mm +P or .357sig/.40S&W load too. ;)

Clyde
ps; I'd highly doubt too that many US firearm owners or even gun shop clerks could even name 2/3 makers of a factory .38Super pistol let alone suggest good carry or defense rounds in the caliber.
 
The op asked about the .38 Super. He stated that he has a liking for the 1911. Several manufacturers offer guns chambered in .38 Super in a Commander sized gun (4 1/4" barrel).

He did not ask about the 9mm or the 40S&W or etc. although a number of folks can't help themselves but chime in on those rounds.

I shoot .38 Super quite a bit from a number of guns. I have done that for a good many years. The recoil is lighter than a .45acp. The recoil is less sharp than that of the .40 S&W or the .357 Sig in most loading across the board. The Super operates at less pressure than the 40 or .357 Sig and that makes a difference in felt recoil.

It's recoil is similar to the 9mm but a bit stronger.

ClydeFrog is unfortunately unfamiliar with the round but that does not mean that everyone is.

1911s are available from Kimber, Colt, Springfield and other makers for the Super. Ammo is available as I showed and others mentioned. If the poster wants a gun in Super they are available.

tipoc
 
I shot a Colt series 70 in .38 super for a lot of years. I bit expensive on the ammo from gunshops, and hard to find at times, but it's certainly available.

It's a good cartridge, certainly worthy of consideration when choosing a SD cartridge; especially if recoil is an issue.

If I remember right, the last SD ammo I bought was made by Cor-Bon, but it's been a while. I don't shoot it all that much these days, although I have about 400 or so rounds stored for it.

It's a very accurate, and very capable cartridge.

Daryl
 
the Super 38 is a great SD round, I'd pass on double tap I've seen too many low chrono reports including the 38 super. Georgia arms chronoed 1320-1330 from my Colt XSE LW Commander. Which I highly reccomend for a "Super carry gun" pun intended.
SANY0177.jpg
 
Aren't the ballistics of the 38 super about the same as .40 S&W?
Click to expand...

No, not quite. There is overlap of course, as there is for many rounds, but the .40 is a more powerful round. The 40 can send a heavier bullet downrange faster than the .38 Super. The 40 fits in the same size guns as the 9mm and the .357 Sig while the .38 Super is the same length as the .45 acp. The Super was built for the 1911.

Being a law enforcement round there are many more loadings available for the 40 S&W than the Super.

If you handload you can get a 160 gr. bullet up to about 1000 fps from the Super with a lead SWC bullet and do it safely. I've gotten a 158gr jacketed bullet just over 1150 fps. No commercial manufacturers make such a load though. Such loads are available for the .40S&W.

If you are looking for a round with less recoil than the .45 and with many loadings of ammo on the shelves than the 9mm would be a useful choice. Or the .40 S&W if you stick to some loads for it.

Most folks go with the Super not because it is the best choice for everyone but because it is the .38 Super and a good choice for them.

Year after year at competitions like the Bianchi Cup and the Steel Challenge the Super is loaded in many of the top competitors guns. It is hard to beat it in compensated guns.

Nowdays there are more good commercial self defense loads for the Super than there were 10 years ago.

tipoc
 
Another option you might consider is reduced recoil .45acp.

At 750fps a 230gr lswc will still make nice big holes and the recoil feels easier than many 9mm.
 
The 38 super is cool, retro and as effective as everything else. For defense purposes, you want to use CoBon.

WildavoidothersAlaska ™©2002-2011
 
I've owned 1911s, Glocks, Brownings, and a lot of others in a lot of different calibers. I have never found any load in 45 with any weight bullet or powder combination that even comes close to the feel of a 38Super in recoil. It's just a whole different animal. I've had 9mm, 356tsw, 9x23, and a few others I don't recall. My favorite all time caliber in the 1911 has been the 38Super. If you handload, this caliber really shines. My last Super was built by Claudio Salasa at Briley and it would easily shoot under 2" at 50 yards and never, never failed to function. I quit plate shooting a couple of years ago and got into other things but recently I've had the urge to get another plate gun. If I do, it will be another Les Behr 38Super.
 
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