.38 special vs. 9mm in revolvers

S

simonrichter

New member
since it is possible to make revolvers in 9mm w/o half moon clips or the like, I wonder why .38 special is still the first choice (for all who don't go as strong as .357, of course) for revolvers.

9mm ammo is more compact, slightly stronger than .38 in terms of ME, and, most important, 9mm is as readily available as .38 but much cheaper - and that will most likely remain that way in the foreseeable future.

Is it simply tradition or are there any advantages of .38 I didn't grasp?
 
Maybe from a reloading stand point in that you can apply a roll crimp to help hold the bullet under recoil on a 38 but from a performance stand point I would say the 9mm has it hands down. Especially from a short barrel. If I were looking for a compact revolver for SD I wold strongly consider the 9, if it were for more of a recreational use, I would go with the 38.
 
I wonder why .38 special is still the first choice (for all who don't go as strong as .357, of course) for revolvers.
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Probably availability more than anything else. And I have a hunch that 9mm from a snubby isn't going to have much more oomph than a 38, anyway.
 
simonrichter said:
since it is possible to make revolvers in 9mm w/o half moon clips or the like, I wonder why .38 special is still the first choice...
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All of the mechanisms for ejecting rimless cartridges from a swing-out cylinder revolver are relatively complex, costly, and trouble-prone compared to an ejector star.

Additionally, 9mm has a problem with case setback due to the slight case taper. If a case expands more than normal on firing, it may act as a wedge, pushing itself backwards and potentially jamming itself against the recoil shield. This may cause the cylinder to drag or even lock up completely. The S&W Model 547 had a firing-pin-actuated plunger in the recoil shield to prevent this from happening; this adds yet more cost and complexity to the design.
 
skoro said:
And I have a hunch that 9mm from a snubby isn't going to have much more oomph than a 38, anyway.
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It has quite a bit more oomph. :) In terms of muzzle energy, 9mm is typically closer to .357Mag than .38Spl+P out of a snubby, but without the ridiculous muzzle blast of the typical full-house .357 load. It's reasonably comparable to some of the commercial .357 "Short Barrel" loads.

One minor drawback is that you're basically limited to 147gr max, and unless you use handloads for SD (which most authorities don't recommend), you'll also be limited to bullets with a round-nose or truncated-cone profile intended to feed through an automatic pistol. .38 or .357 snubbies can utilize LHBWC, LSWCHP, or DEWC bullets that leave sharper-edged holes than a 9mm JHP bullet that fails to expand.
 
Maybe if the 9MM keeps gaining popularity in revolvers the gun makers, and ammo manufacturers will team up to make a 9X19 Rimmed round.:D
Designing a new frame size to take advantage of the 9X18's shorter length.
 
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"somebody would come out with a 9X19 rimmed cartridge."

Somebody did -- Federal and Charter Arms in the late 1980s.

The 9mm Federal cartridge was a 9mm Luger with a rim. Charter Arms spent a lot time, money, and effort on the project, designating it the Pit Bull, IIRC.

Charter Arms folded within months of introducing the revolver, and Federal stopped manufacturing the cartridge, and stopped shipping what it had. Rumor was that they have a warehouse full of it.

Supposedly Federal pulled the cartridge after Charter's demise because the round will easily chamber in breaktop revolvers chamered for .38 S&W. I can only imagine what a disaster that would be.


As for the observation that the 9mm cartridge outperforms the .38 Special in a smaller package, and that makes the 9mm the more logical choice, there's one BIG problem with that...

Gun manufacturers have never made a reduced-size frame specifically for guns chambered in 9mm to take advantage of its smaller size.

I remember a Guns & Ammo article back in the day decrying the fact that the Charter Pit Bull was nothing more than a .38 Special-sized revolver rechambered to this new cartridge.

Basic question was... Why did they only go half way?
 
Gun manufacturers have never made a reduced-size frame specifically for guns chambered in 9mm to take advantage of its smaller size.
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Taurus did that with .380 but I can't remember if they did that with 9mm or not. OTOH, Taurus moon clips are notoriously bad and only hold some brands if ammo securely.
 
Revolvers chambered for the 9mm are more expensive and use an awkward arrangement to hold the rounds. 38 are easier to reload. Most importantly the 38 is "special" don't you know.:)
 
a couple of reasons I can think of right away.

cost being number one. compare the cost of a S&W 642 to whatever the S&W 9mm snub nose comparable revolver is.

next, loading and unloading. the .38 spl can be loaded with speed strips, speed loaders, or one at a time, all in any gun chambered for it. not so with the 9mm as those few guns out there are limited in loading applications.

next is size. the 9mm revolver is no smaller than the .38 spl revolver even though the cartridge is considerably shorter.

lastly are recoil and availability. rounds being equal in weight and +p'ness, the 9mm will "kick" more in the same platform. you can walk in to any sporting goods store and find several 38 spl guns in stock, that's no usually the case with a 9mm revolver.
 
Maybe from a reloading stand point in that you can apply a roll crimp to help hold the bullet under recoil on a 38
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I use 160 grain lead bullets without a crimp grove using a tapper crimp and life is good and to date have not had any bullets work their way out of the case due to recoil
 
I handled a 9mm revolver at a gunshow recently. The ejection of rounds was not very positive. There are still kinks to work out.

The 9mm Luger was not designed with revolvers in mind.

One of the many things I have to wrap my head around a good reason.
 
Interesting Glenn, seems that adding tiny little parts like those extractor pins makes it extract better. Worth watching forums to see if complaints crop up about tiny little extractor pins.
 
"...the much improved ammo of 30 years later..." More about no demand.
"...a performance stand point..." Performance is relative to purpose. Lots of .357" match bullets, but few, if any, .335".
 
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