FATHERMURPHY
Inactive
I have a Berretta 84F .380 made in Italy with 13 shot capacity magazines, how does this cartridge compare to a 38 Special. Is it a reliable weapon for CCW ?
38 special vs .380
- Thread starter FATHERMURPHY
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Greeting's From The Deep South, Father-
Bottom line here would be that most people
would consider any .380 auto cartridge
minimal for self defense situations. On the
other hand, a .38 Special loaded with some
light n' lively fodder such as Federal's
125 grain +P hydra shok's would be considered
adequate as a defensive cartridge. There are
other's on the market as well, that offer
the same basic qualities of the hydra-shok's.
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
Bottom line here would be that most people
would consider any .380 auto cartridge
minimal for self defense situations. On the
other hand, a .38 Special loaded with some
light n' lively fodder such as Federal's
125 grain +P hydra shok's would be considered
adequate as a defensive cartridge. There are
other's on the market as well, that offer
the same basic qualities of the hydra-shok's.
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
Since the .380 ACP bullets are lighter than the .38 spl bullets one generally gets less penetration from the .380 ACP. On the other hand, that Berreta has a fairly long barrel, so maybe you could use a heavier bullet and still get good velocity, and it might be more effective overall than a .38 spl out of a snub-nose revolver. There's also a very significant capacity advantage to the Berreta.
Since you already have a .380acp (and have your questions answered about the comparison), go ahead and use your .380 for carry as long as it is reliable with your chosen loads. I have long felt the .380acp was an underestimated choice.
I am fond of three loads for this caliber; Remington's 102gr Golden Saber, Federal's Hydra-Shok and Cor-bon's 90gr JHP.
Any of these will do the job as long as it's compatible with the pistol and you do your job with proper placement.
Good luck.
I am fond of three loads for this caliber; Remington's 102gr Golden Saber, Federal's Hydra-Shok and Cor-bon's 90gr JHP.
Any of these will do the job as long as it's compatible with the pistol and you do your job with proper placement.
Good luck.
I had one
I had the same model although I just traded it in. First, I have a friend involved in a case where a paratrooper at Fort Bragg was shot with a .380. The bullet shattered his femur and came out the other side. If a round can shatter the largest weight bearing bone in the body of a muscular North American male, that should be good enough, right? I think a lot of these discussions about knock-down power are misplaced. If you shoot someone with a .380, they are very likely to die or be seriously wounded. Whether they would be more dead if shot by something else is moot, so you're only going to be aiming it at someone when you fear for your life with no option of escape, so that you might have to take theirs. Many popular gun writers agree it's the minimum caliber adequate for personal defense.
This model is fairly large and heavy for a .380. But as a result it also has very large magazine capacity, longish barrel, and less recoil than most .380's, which are vurtually all blow-back designs. The trigger pull in both DA and SA is very good. The sights are decent. The ambidextrous slide safety can be applied whether the hammer is up or down, not true of many DA pistols. It has a firing pin block and a chamber loaded indicator, all nice safety features.
The trend nowadays is for compact polymer 9mm's, or taking .32 "pocket guns" into .380 to make a highly concealable package. So in that sense the 84 is obselete - it's almost as large and heavy as some popular compact 9mm's. But while the double-stack magazine makes it wider than the 85, it's still pretty compact. So is it the first choice for CCW use these days? Probably not. But it has the features above going for it and the general advantags of semi-autos over revolvers. Good luck.
I had the same model although I just traded it in. First, I have a friend involved in a case where a paratrooper at Fort Bragg was shot with a .380. The bullet shattered his femur and came out the other side. If a round can shatter the largest weight bearing bone in the body of a muscular North American male, that should be good enough, right? I think a lot of these discussions about knock-down power are misplaced. If you shoot someone with a .380, they are very likely to die or be seriously wounded. Whether they would be more dead if shot by something else is moot, so you're only going to be aiming it at someone when you fear for your life with no option of escape, so that you might have to take theirs. Many popular gun writers agree it's the minimum caliber adequate for personal defense.
This model is fairly large and heavy for a .380. But as a result it also has very large magazine capacity, longish barrel, and less recoil than most .380's, which are vurtually all blow-back designs. The trigger pull in both DA and SA is very good. The sights are decent. The ambidextrous slide safety can be applied whether the hammer is up or down, not true of many DA pistols. It has a firing pin block and a chamber loaded indicator, all nice safety features.
The trend nowadays is for compact polymer 9mm's, or taking .32 "pocket guns" into .380 to make a highly concealable package. So in that sense the 84 is obselete - it's almost as large and heavy as some popular compact 9mm's. But while the double-stack magazine makes it wider than the 85, it's still pretty compact. So is it the first choice for CCW use these days? Probably not. But it has the features above going for it and the general advantags of semi-autos over revolvers. Good luck.
I've had some of the same questions about the .380, FATHER.
VVG and Snow make some excellent points, and I'm tending to agree w/ them.
Here's a couple things you might want to read:
http://www.recguns.com/IVG10.html
http://www.recguns.com/VG1.html
I've found all of the recguns FAQs to be enormously informative.
Good luck.
VVG and Snow make some excellent points, and I'm tending to agree w/ them.
Here's a couple things you might want to read:
http://www.recguns.com/IVG10.html
http://www.recguns.com/VG1.html
I've found all of the recguns FAQs to be enormously informative.
Good luck.
Hi Father. A little about me.
I have four .380's and find them easy to conceal and shoot. I have a .38 special snubbie, and it undeniably packs a bigger punch.
On the other hand, you can punch twice as many holes in a bad guy with your Beretta and good penetration with FMJ in .380 is very likely IMHO.
Regards.
I have four .380's and find them easy to conceal and shoot. I have a .38 special snubbie, and it undeniably packs a bigger punch.
On the other hand, you can punch twice as many holes in a bad guy with your Beretta and good penetration with FMJ in .380 is very likely IMHO.
Regards.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"If a round can shatter the largest weight bearing bone in the body of a muscular North American male, that should be good enough, right?"
No, not necessarily. A .22 can shatter a femur, as well.
No, not necessarily. A .22 can shatter a femur, as well.
I did my own personal expansion/penetration testing, and found that the 102gr. Golden Sabre "damage channels" through the test media did not look a whole lot different from 9mm loads. Not quite as much penetration, but enough.
The M&S "1-shot stop" statistics on the best .380 loads are pretty good. Some people find this a highly controversial methodology.
My feeling? If it will make a .38 cal hole (plus any HP expansion) most of the way through an average body, it is good enough.
Sure, the bullet weighs less than the .38 spec, but the velocity is higher. I don't see all that much difference between the two.
The M&S "1-shot stop" statistics on the best .380 loads are pretty good. Some people find this a highly controversial methodology.
My feeling? If it will make a .38 cal hole (plus any HP expansion) most of the way through an average body, it is good enough.
Sure, the bullet weighs less than the .38 spec, but the velocity is higher. I don't see all that much difference between the two.
the 380 is good enough, but you may consider that a 380 hollowpoint may not be as good at penetrating as an FMJ is. Make sure first and foremost that your pistol is reliable. If its reliable and you shoot it well then why not?
Will it feed hollowpoints reliably? for all 13 rounds? get a few extra mags while you still can.
I'd also be worried about finding good gunleather for it.
Will it feed hollowpoints reliably? for all 13 rounds? get a few extra mags while you still can.
I'd also be worried about finding good gunleather for it.
I've also seen someone shot through the hand with a .380 fired from a Sig. The round past through his hand, an interior wall, into the celling and clean through the roof - never to be seen again. Now, like problably most people on this board I woun't feel good carrying a .380 but it did make me stop and think.
That Beretta is great pistol. I've never been able to shoot ANY snub nose revolver accurately enough even with A LOT of practice. There are some people out there who can shoot them well. I never could. I've owned Smiths, Colts, Taurus, & a Ruger Sp101. I suck with all them, even with moderate ammo. I believe stopping power is overrated. Being able to hit the target accurately is far more important. I carry a Makarov 9x18 off duty. It's a reliable tack driver & so is that Beretta.
Good Luck
Good Luck
I really like that Beretta. My brother in law has one and it is an attractive little package. I have a Star Model D .380 which is smaller and equally reliable (plus locked breech so recoil is minimal) but SA and single stack so 6+1. I think the .380 is as small as I'd like to go, but I shoot it well which counts for alot. My .25 does not see much action, however.
Nothing wrong with a good .380 ACP.
The thing you pick up with larger calibers (generally) is margin for error. Hit a guy in the shoulder with a .380 ACP and he may not be knocked down. Substitute a .45 ACP and it pretty much won't matter where you hit him; a knockdown is almost (notice that I qualified it guys) assured.
As was mentioned, a .380 is about as small as you'll find anyone around here recommending for a CCW piece. But if you shoot it well, and you can tote around 13 rounds in it, it sounds like a good deal to me!
The thing you pick up with larger calibers (generally) is margin for error. Hit a guy in the shoulder with a .380 ACP and he may not be knocked down. Substitute a .45 ACP and it pretty much won't matter where you hit him; a knockdown is almost (notice that I qualified it guys) assured.
As was mentioned, a .380 is about as small as you'll find anyone around here recommending for a CCW piece. But if you shoot it well, and you can tote around 13 rounds in it, it sounds like a good deal to me!