38 Special Snubby loads for defense

B

bstogsdill

Inactive
Hi. I have a snubbie load question.

What bullet type and weight has anyone found to work best in a 2 inch snubbie? I am looking a bit in line and it seems most JHP don't open up at snubbie velocities. Which begs the question would a hardcast semi wadcutter or hardcast wadcutters perform better

Also what weight bullet. I thought I might use 125 gn but it seems like the penetration was not as effective as 158gn. I'm looking at 38plus loads only.

The test I read showed best results from golden sabres and from gold dot bullets but you loose penetration as you gain expansion..I'm undecided whether to go with golden sabres 125gn or just stick with hard cast semi wadcutter for 38special.

I have heard of using swaged hollow base wadcutters loaded backward but I think they tend to over expand and won't penetrate.

Sorry I should have remembered the source for the test I read, but I figured someone here may have done some research already and settled on a bullet type and weight that research deems effective for 2 inch 38 special.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Bradley
 
I use 138 grain Button nose wadcutters loaded to +P. Getting just over 900 fps from a 1 7/8" barrel. Accurate as anything else.

I don't think a swaged HBWC would be much good at that velocity.

David
 
Hi David.. I reckon the 138gn is a hardcast bullet? Not a soft swaged bullet?
And I assume the best powders for snubbies are the fast burning powders, since snubbie are so short? I loaded a couple sample rounds using blue dot to 38plus recipe and i got a huge fireball out of the barrel.. I figure whatever burns outside the barrel is to late to add velocity and is wasting powder. I plan to use bullseye or equivalent fast powder for the snubbie from now on.


Thanks
Bradley
 
The old school Speer Reversed HBWC , which gives you a big hollow point bullet .
when loaded over 3.5 grains Bullseye will give you 801 fps from a 2" barreled S&W
J-Frame revolver and will expand to .715 " diameter .

If you are concerned about lack of penetration , keep the 3.5 grains of Bullseye
and use :
148 grain cast wadcutter (plain base ) Lyman #358091
150 grain cast SWC (plain base) Lyman #358477
158 grain cast SWC (plain base) Lyman #358665 , solid point or hollow point
*160 grain cast wadcutter (plain base) Lyman # 358432 or the NOE version *

All of these cast bullets do not need to be "hard cast" in fact a blend of 50/50 lead and clip on wheel weights works just great and is the alloy I use .

* All my 38's and 357's shoot this bullet and load very accurately .
My 3" J-Frame shoots them best and that is what I keep in the cylinder .
3.5 grains of Bullseye gives abot 825 fps from a 3 " bbl , 800 fps from 2 " barrel .
Not extremely heavy load (+P) but not a powder puff load either .

Hope this gives you some guidance , don't forget to verify my loads with printed data source just to make sure I didn't make an error.
Gary
 
Last edited:
The old 158gr SWC "FBI load" was considered a good choice in 38 snubbys for years. I think a SWCHP was used in some cases. At 38 snubby velocities/energy levels I'm not sure a cast bullet performs much better than a swaged one.

A more modern alternative would be something like Speer's Short Barrel loads/bullets designed for the lower velocities from short barrels.
 
I have tried the reversed WC bullets a couple of times in water jugs and if they land just right they do expand to a nice looking mushroom. But if they land just a little bit wrong they mash themselves shut and travel off to one side or the other. I have given up on them as a reliable SD load. Reversed HB WC bullets are not know to be real stable in flight.

I either use a Speer 158gr SWCHP loaded with 5.1 grs of 231 for a little over 900fps from a 2" barrel or a Lee 148gr tumble lube WC bullet loaded to around 850fps. I prestress the noses of the HP bullets with a phillips screw driver to aid in expansion. They are impressive on 2 liter bottles of water. And don't worry. They give you all the penetration you could ask for.
 
I learned a long time ago if you want velocity, you need to use the high velocity data. A max load of unique will be faster than a max load of bullseye no matter how long the barrel. Blue dot is not MY favorite powder. My max load for wadcutters is a +P using. WW 231. I found in a book and it works. A +P charge of Unique works well also. I did get 1100 from a 110 grain JHP from the same gun using Blue dot. The closer I got to max, the more erratic the velocity became. ES was crazy.

Experimenting helps you get better with your gun.

David
 
The old 158gr SWC "FBI load" was considered a good choice in 38 snubbys for years.
Click to expand...

Yep!

I think a SWCHP was used in some cases.
Click to expand...

Actually in all cases.

I'm not sure a cast bullet performs much better than a swaged one.
Click to expand...

Cast using an alloy high in tin and low in antimony, a cast bullet will outperform a swaged bullet every time. Bullet in the middle and on the right came out of my 2.5" snubbie using my FBI Load.

Don

attachment.php
 
I believe the bullets of all those Federal, Remington, and Winchester factory "FBI loads" were swaged as opposed to cast.
 
I've done workups with Speer's 110 and 135 grain GDHP SB bullets.

Since the purpose of the work ups was for short barreled defense ammo, I chose flash-suppressed propellants. Ramshot Silhouette for the 110's, and BE-86 for the 135's.

At 6.6 grains of Ramshot Silhouette, the 110's hurled at 907 f/s through my 1.875" barreled Smith model 60. (1067 f/s through a 4" M67)

The 135's clocked at 890 f/s using 6.0 grains of BE-86. (961 f/s with the 4" - Speer's factory offering clocks at 1011 f/s through the same gun.)

Both rounds handled well through the J-frame; with the 110's being a bit more manageable.

I didn't conduct a ballistics gel test. But according to Speer, these bullets should open up at these velocities; as illustrated on page 881 in Speer #14.
 
recoil seems to be the biggest detractor from good loads in a 2" J a frame .38spl. however in a 2" K frame most any of the top loads will be shot with ease.
 
Last edited:
The backwards HBW didn't do well in my "tests" I fired it into wet newsprint and water jugs and often the skirt would collapse and when fired into wet paper, 10-12 ft, the cavity would often clog and the bullet act like a solid. Some worked, just my results were not consistent. Just my experience as some reported good results.

I feed one of my house guns, a 3" 38, with a cast 150 gr. DEWC, cast with approx 12 BHN alloy, loaded over a max charge of W231. I get around 875 fps and the round, although not intended, is pretty accurate out to 25 yds (slow fire, two hands = 2 1/2"-3"). Very impressive when fired into water jugs and should deliver good tissue destruction with not a lot of over penetration through walls...
 
I like the 38 special but not as a defense carry. Even with Plus-P's six shots may prove to be lacking firepower considering what the street bad boys now tote. Honestly I believe the 38 Special is wondering towards the obsolete column. Than again.
If I have to pull my H&K its all about aggressive Offensive firepower>in mind & hand.

Only suggestion I have for the reloading of 38 Special if the cartridge is less than a Plus-p in power. >Soft Lead bullets only. " Than you'll get all the expansion such bullets are capable of."
 
The only thing that keeps me from carrying a 38 Spec is they are not as flat as my shield and as easy to hide and they don't have the same fire power. I can't imagine having to reload but I do carry a spare magazine. I can put 8 fresh round's in the 9mm a lot faster than six in the revolver. I would like the try a 38 Super in a small light auto with cast loads. the beauty of the cast loads is recoil reduction. Reduce recoil and most of us shoot better! In a self defense situation I strongly suspect it will be point and shoot, no aiming. If you have time to get off aimed shots your probably either not under attack or the shooter is to far off and hasn't picked you out. You may well not be defending yourself if you shoot at long range!

My favorite 38 Spec loads were 148gr WC. Very accurate and very little recoil. I strongly suspect a shooter hit in the chest with one will likely have to collect himself to go on. Then if not then they guy is likely so wired on drugs you'll have to put him down hard. The problem is thinking about this stuff when someone is shooting back at you! My 38 Spec today is a S&W 38/44 with a 6" barrel. I shoot 150gr SWC out of it and unless it's all I have, not taking on a bad guy with it, to much gun to carry around concealed! But I really like it!
 
While the "old" FBI load did well in its day, and still works well enough today, it's not what they use today. Technology and advances in jacketed bullets have made for a myriad of efficient SD/HD projectiles. Along with a balance of penetration and expansion, my priority from my weapon is accuracy. The best SD bullet in the world is a moot point if I don't hit where I point. I roll my own with 125gr Gold Dots running at the cusp a +p. I'm not too concerned about holding off the Mexican Cartel, just the run of the mill mugger/road rager/dirtball.
 
I suggest what ever you go with you shoot it thru a chrono. Every gun is different. I have to S&W 66 snubs....same gun yet I routinely get a 25-40 fps difference with the same load. YMMV
 
Current Speer data shows velocities for their 110-grain short barrel bullet (which will expand in a 2” barrel) in a 2”-barreled M15. Max loads:

Bullseye and W231 - ~850 fps
Unique - 936 fps


.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top