38 special crimp

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kris6600

New member
I'm currently reloading 38 special for my fiance's ruger lcr. I'm using of bullseye powder, mixed brass, cci 500 primers, and armscor 158 fmj rn bullets. The bullets do not have a canalure. I'm having a problem with bullets being pulled by the inertia of the recoil. It happened before so I bought a Lee crimp die to try to solve the issue. I put a pretty heavy crimp on them and tried again. It seemed to solve the problem on one box of bullets. But on the next few, which were ran on the same batch, it did not. Her revolver being so light has a lot of recoil for a 38. That coupled with her grip strength not being as great as mine causes this problem does anyone have any suggestions as to a solution? I have another 200 that have not been loaded as well as 200 loaded rounds.

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I would suggest you buy bullets with a cannellure going forward........the crimp needs something to grab onto without crimping so tight that it deforms the bullet.
 
I would suggest you buy bullets with a cannellure going forward.
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Or, you could get a taper crimp die. But in your situation, the cannelured bullet may be the better choice.

The Lee FCD (and most likely, your previous die) applies a roll crimp. They really need to have something to roll into.
 
All my 158 plated bullets have a cannelure. No problems in my revolvers. For bullets with no cannelure I've tended to use coated rounds. They tend to crimp well with my taper die.
 
There's no need for a crimp on light .38 Special loads. Sounds like the load you're using is not a light load though. What is the load? I'm not seeing a jacketed 158 load using bullseye anywhere. Kind of odd.
"...lot of recoil for a 38..." That's the load more than the revolver.
 
What Lee crimp die are you talking about? Not the Factory Crimp Die? All the Lee FCD does is size the case after seating.

I would suggest you buy bullets with a cannellure going forward........the crimp needs something to grab onto without crimping so tight that it deforms the bullet.
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Good idea. I don't recommend plated bullets to new reloaders mainly because there isn't enough easily found information (load data and crimping info). I see questions concerning data a nd crimps several times a week on forums...

Crimping 101; bullets with a crimp groove/cannalure are roll crimped. Bullets w/o crimp grooves/cannalure are taper crimped. Of course during your reloading career you will find exceptions to this "rule of thumb", but for a new reloader this will eliminate one headache...
 
Make sure you are not using Remington brass with an RP head stamp. It is thin-walled and results in less tension on the bullet. I have loaded some of those same bullets, bought through Dillon, and have not noted any problem, although I loaded them as +p and have not shot many. I have much bigger 38s than the LCR and don't shoot heavier recoil rounds in my smaller 38s. I don't buy any more revolver bullets without some provision for a roll crimp.
 
mikld said:
What Lee crimp die are you talking about? Not the Factory Crimp Die? All the Lee FCD does is size the case after seating.

Good idea. I don't recommend plated bullets to new reloaders mainly because there isn't enough easily found information (load data and crimping info). I see questions concerning data a nd crimps several times a week on forums...

Crimping 101; bullets with a crimp groove/cannalure are roll crimped. Bullets w/o crimp grooves/cannalure are taper crimped. Of course during your reloading career you will find exceptions to this "rule of thumb", but for a new reloader this will eliminate one headache...
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The FCD I use for 38/357 crimps
 
Kris6600,

Neither the bullet nor the powder are optimal choices in .38 Special, but the bullet weight you chose is maximizing recoil. QuickLOAD and the Alliant data for a 146 grain bullet (5.1 grains max) both suggest you are probably running slightly above +P maximum pressure. You can get the same or higher velocity at lower peak pressure from little bit slower powder. Unique may be slow enough. The Rugers are strong and can take some punishment, but the board rules require the hot load warning be put on the top of your post. I will put it there for you this time.

Switch to the 125 grain Armscore bullets and the problem will likely go away. I have a friend with a titanium 5-shot revolver in .45 Colt and that gun's small mass offers so little inertial resistance to recoil that he can't even use factory 250 grain ammunition with it. Until he drops down to 200 grains, they pull, just as you are experiencing, and that's despite a proper factory crimp.

Buy her a box of these to chamber for self-defense, as they are specially made for short barrel revolvers, but roll the practice loads with the 125's to save cost and prevent recoil headaches.

The strongest successful roll crimps I have made have been with the Redding Profile Crimp Die.


Mikld,

There is a crimp shoulder profile cut into a steel ring in the Lee CFCD that is at the top of the die under that threaded aluminum adjustment plug. You adjust the crimp with that p;ug so the die mouth can be set to remain in contact the shell holder at the top of the stroke, and thus it still passes over the whole case during the stroke.
 
kris6600 wrote:
I'm using of bullseye powder, mixed brass, cci 500 primers, and armscor 158 fmj rn bullets.
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You began with the "in excess of published maximum" disclosure but you didn't mention the charge of Bullseye that you are actually using. Please post complete load data.
 
T. O'Heir wrote:
I'm not seeing a jacketed 158 load using bullseye anywhere.
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First, note that the OP opens with the "loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums" disclosure.

Second, try the Hornady Handbook. Both the 4th edition and 8th edition show Bullseye with a 158 grain jacketed bullet with start load of 3.4 grains up to a maximum of 4.2 grains for normal loads and 4.5 grains for +P loads.

Also, the Speer Manual #11 shows a maximum load of Bullseye in 38 Special of 4.3 grains using 158 grain jacketed bullets with a maximum of 4.8 grains for +P loads.
 
38 spl. Brass could have different thicknesses so if I were having a problem I would reload first by brand. Are all your cases trimmed to the same length ? Are you using a roll crimp ? For the LCR what charge are you using ? Light loads might be the way to go for her. Small revolvers could look like a flame thrower.
 
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I have some of those bullets, and suffer from the same problem and worse. The bullets get stuck in the bore with 38 special loads, and hotter 38 special loads will draw the bullet out of the brass.
I use them now in my 357 mag loads with good crimp (maybe too much crimp)
 
The warning was my fault. I thought he'd said he was at 5 grains of Bullseye, but I don't see it on a reread, so either he took it out or I was reading too many posts and crossed up this one with another where 5 grains was being used.
 
The actual load I am using is 4.2 grains. Which is within hornady data. I worked this load up in an old Taurus snubnose also. It works wonderfully in that revolver. This loads recoil in both guns is on par with factory target ammunition. The excessive recoil stems from the lcr's 13oz weight. Less than half of other similar revolvers. I guess the best solution to the problem is to purchase a different bullet with a canalure. Any suggestions on cheap plinking bullets. I would prefer to avoid lead. I would like to stick to jacketed.

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Any suggestions on cheap plinking bullets. I would prefer to avoid lead. I would like to stick to jacketed.
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XTreme makes some heavily plated bullets with a canalure. I've used the 158 grain SWCs with success.
 
kris6600 wrote:
Any suggestions on cheap plinking bullets.
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Like TailGator said, Xtreme makes some plated bullets with a cannelure. I've never used them, but I have been satisfied with other XTreme bullets that I have used and these should be reasonably priced.

These are some nice JHP 158 gr bullets that I have had good luck with:
http://www.evergladesammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets/38-357-158gr-jhp-bullets.html

I haven't tried these, but RMR has a good reputation:
https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...-plated-flat-point-plated-new/?v=7516fd43adaa

And these look like they may have come from XTreme, but this seller is offering 25% off for the 4th of July holiday:
https://americanreloading.com/en/38-caliber-357-358/1809-38-357-158gr-tmj-hp-new-500ct.html
 
The light gun and heavy bullet are going to continue to cause enough recoil that the cannelure may or may not solve it. My friend's .45 Colt couldn't stop backing out, and this guy is 6'5" and 320 lbs with hard, conditioned hands hanging on. Unless your girlfriend fits that description, getting behind the gun firmly enough to prevent bullet pull may prove daunting. I found with the lightweight Charter Arms .44 Special Bulldog, that a set of aftermarket grip panels that extended the little J-frame sized original grip was a significant help, but it reduces the compactness a bit.

On bullets, the Armscore at Dillon are economical. You can get bullets with cannelures just as cheaply from Montana Gold if you buy 1000 at at time. But in 100's they are more pricey.

Everglades has a 130 grain FMJ for $19/100 and $129/1000. If you consider going to the 135 grain Gold Dot short gun load for self-defense, then the 130 grain bullet POI is going to be close enough and it has a cannelure.

If you get desparate, Corbin sells a hand tool for putting a cannelure into the bullets you already have. But at $180, you'll have to do some thinking about how many you will actually shoot.
 
Unclenick wrote:
The warning was my fault. I thought he'd said he was at 5 grains of Bullseye, but I don't see it on a reread, so either he took it out or I was reading too many posts and crossed up this one with another where 5 grains was being used.
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At some point, I think the post was modified because the "in excess of published maximum" disclaimer has also disappeared. But if it had been 5 gr Bullseye, then, yeah, the warning was entirely appropriate.
 
Switch to the 125 grain Armscore bullets and the problem will likely go away.
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Very much agree. In .38Spcl I load 125 grain coated lead that has a crimp groove, made by Standard Bullet Company over 3.2 grains of Titegroup. Very manageable recoil, and shoots like a laser beam out to 20 yards.
 
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