38 special brass using 125 grain CPFP

[SK1911]

I was recently given about 1500 pcs 38 special cases of mixed brass, some starline, freedom, and misc.
Since I have a SW 357 686, I don’t shoot a lot of 38 special loads, however this will soon change with the supply of brass I just received.
I also have 500 125 grain plated flat points and HP-38 or Titegroup. So my real questions are
• Can I use non +P brass with low +P loads? (seems to be a lot more choices with using a 125 grain bullet) Starline says yes if I use their brass, but im not sure about the others.
• What portion of the band on the load charts for a 125 grain plated flat point? Seems the jury is out on this about 50 % say mid to upper lead bullet loads and 50 % say low to mid jacketed loads.
I have read in numerous places that lighter loads (38sp) are much more prone to squibs (I really don’t want this to happen, so using a bit more powder and having a bit more recoil is not an issue).
Any first hand expertise using this bullet weight and powder would be greatly appreciated. I can also purchase a box of bullets in a different weight If this seems to be more recommended and keep the 125 grain for use in the 357 brass.
Lastly I can use a different powder and bullet if recommended, but I do want to use this brass.

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes, you can use standard brass for +P loads. I have read that wadcutter brass is thinner but Skeeter Skelton used it for his near-magnum load, so there is nothing to worry about.

I once stuck a 125 gr coated bullet, largely because I hastily loaded them with powder charge and OAL set up for 158s. Seated them deeper and they did ok but not great.

9mms work fine with plated bullets at .38 +P velocity but they don't have to jump a cylinder gap. My only experience with fast plated revolver bullets was the IDPA Nationals where S&W provided the guns and ammo for a BUG side match. The ammo was a national brand but their practice load with plated bullets instead of their famous JHP. The guns got hot and dirty and were peppering the targets with fragments of plating by the time I got my turn.

So seat them a bit short and keep the gun clean and you will probably be OK.

 

[TimSr]

+P cases are the same, and are just marked for reference.

With plated bullets, stay in the upper end of lead data as a minimum to avoid stuck bullets, You'll be good up to at least low to mid level .357 mag loads depending on the bullet construction, so they will handle any 38 special load.

 

[T. O'Heir]

+P brass is exactly the same as non +P brass from any manufacturer. The head stamp is there so the factory workies don't mix 'em, only.
The only issue with using .38 cases in a .357 is that you will need to clean the cylinders with a .45 calibre brush(once through is plenty) before shooting .357 after .38. Isn't a big deal and more important with cast bullets though.
A flat point is pretty much the same shape as an HP for OAL. Plated bullets use cast bullet data.

 

[Nick_C_S]

• What portion of the band on the load charts for a 125 grain plated flat point? Seems the jury is out on this about 50 % say mid to upper lead bullet loads and 50 % say low to mid jacketed loads.

Aren't "mid to upper lead" and "low to mid jacketed" one in the same? Joking aside, those two descriptions tend to be where the two sets of load data over-lap. At any rate, the point is to avoid a stuck bullet (which is different than a "squib," btw); and that's the most important thing to understand. It doesn't sound like you are trying to make a pure target (very low velocity) round. Just stay away from the low end of lead data. On the other end of the velocity/pressure spectrum: as long as you're sticking with reliable published 38 Special data, you're not going to overdrive them and break down the plating. That's much more of an issue with 357 Mag loadings.

Any first hand expertise using this bullet weight and powder would be greatly appreciated.

That'll be me. I load and shoot a lot of plated 38 Special ammo - including 125 PFP's. Heh, I load and shoot a lot of 38 Special ammo of all types, actually. HP-38 and TiteGroup are both excellent propellants for your application. As legendary as HP-38's reputation is, I'd actually give the nod to TiteGroup here. It'll eek out a little more velocity, most likely. But either will work great. If you were loading lead, I would lobby for the use of HP-38, as it seems (by my observation) to run cooler, which bodes better for lead. TG seems to run hotter and put more lead in my barrels - to the point where I don't use it for lead any more. But TG is my go-to with plated bullets with several calibers (38/44 Special, 45 ACP)

But I digress . . .

I can also purchase a box of bullets in a different weight If this seems to be more recommended and keep the 125 grain for use in the 357 brass.

Nope. No need. 125 Plated is an excellent choice for 38 Special.

I can use a different powder if recommended

Nope. No need. When I'm loading 125 PFP's for 38 Special, I'm reaching for one of these two powders. Other propellants can make them go a few fps faster (Unique comes to mind); but HP-38 or TG is more versatile in the application and will take you to 90%-ish of max velocity.

 

[briandg]

The reason +P brass has the headlamps is that it must be restricted to guns that can stand up to the higher pressure generated. It's kind of like using Advil or prescription grade rufen. The prescription grade is only to be used under supervision and the OTC stuff is expected to be safe for anyone, with certain exceptions, such as don't use prescription grade ammo in a pocket pistol made in China.

I agree, there appears to be no difference. I checked once by weighing both types, then opening and flattening the sheet. Weight was the same, thickness was the same. If someone had access to SAAMI spec sheets this could be confirmed.

I'd suggest putting the +p labeled brass aside, since you have plenty of the regular rounds to work with.

+p rounds should NEVER be loaded into unmarked brass, that's just plain common sense. It would be best if regular loads be loaded with regular brass. If a few years from now you find an unmarked box at the bottom of the stack, loaded into+p case s, will it cause any confusion?

Follow all safety rules, follow all loading data from reliable sources, keep loads separated by lot and clearly label every lot and container. That includes by headlamps.

Or, just wing it and trust your memory and other circumstances to keep you safe.

 

[SHR970]

What Nick C S said. He and I have somewhat differing loading philosophies but his knowledge and advice with plated bullets in general matches up very well with mine.

38 Spec. or 38+P Brass??? See what Starline says about their brass: Starline brass Pretty much what T. O'Heir said and for the reason that briandg said.

It is in low pressure rounds like 38 Spec. using starting or low level lead data where people get in trouble on the low end of the spectrum. Stuck bullets are likely and plated are a pain to drive out. My opinion is just use jacketed data for the 125 gr. rounds.

Got HP-38 / W231???? You are in business. You already have one of the correct powders. TG.. sorry haven't got around to it so I will defer to Nick's recommendation.