.38 Special 147 grain +p+

L

Little Wolf

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Bought some of this at a gun show, great powerful stuff for a .38 special revolver. I think I paid around $12-$15 for a box of 50 rounds. I have been looking for more, but the only source on the web I've found for them has been here. They want $42 for 50 rounds?!?!?!?

Are they out of their minds? Anyone know a cheaper/more reasonable place to shop for them? Thanks.

Also, anyone know the velocity/energy of these rounds out of a 2" snub? Thanks.
 
Hope you're using a +P gun!

Littlewolfe,

I hope you're .38 revolver is rated to accept +P ammo. using .38 +P+ ammo through it my be risky if not.

Respectfully,
Larry C.
 
Any .38 Special +P+ should be shot it a .357 Magnum, period (and particularly if you're talking about a J-frame or D-frame).

They were designed so LE could appear to be carrying a more politically correct ".38 Special," but actually shoot a .357 Magnum level round.
 
As long as its a K-Frame or larger revolver and you don't shoot that stuff all the time I wouldn't worry about it too much. .357's were made on the K-Frame and did OK as long as they were only occasionally used with full house .357 rounds. Just practice with standard pressure and carry the +p+. BTW the reason they're so expensive is that +p+ is usually a police only load and therefore much harder for the rest of us to come by. For less money, try Cor-Bon's 110grn +p loads, they're about even with light .357's.
 
Depends on how old the K-frame is--just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Save them for the .357 Magnum weapons.
 
The Federal website shows a MV 900 fps from a four-inch vented test barrel. It's not real hot. The old 158-grain +P LSWCHP (@ 890 fps) would be a better choice for defence.
 
Hello.

Based on 10 shots fired 10' from the chronograph screens, I got the following average velocities:

S&W Model 64 w/3" bbl:
Remington 158-gr. LSWCHP +P: 883 ft/sec
Federal 147-gr. HS +P+: 911 ft/sec

S&W Model 10 w/4" bbl:
Remington 158-gr. LSWCHP +P: 888 ft/sec
Federal 147-gr. HS +P+: 917 ft/sec

Both figures are quite close to the factory nominal average velocities. It could just be that my 3" has a "fast" barrel compared to the 4" gun, or maybe the insignificant velocity increase in the longer barrel is the norm; I have not checked it closely.

Between the two loads, either should suffice, but I prefer the LSWCHP +P as it was more consistent shot-to-shot than this particular Hydrashok load.

Best.
 
Thank you for the numbers, Gentlemen. That doesn't look too hot - certainly nothing a .38 Special in good condition couldn't handle. I wonder why Federal saw fit to add the extra "+" to its title? Anyone know what the max pressure is?

Thanks,
vanfunk
 
That doesn't look too hot - certainly nothing a .38 Special in good condition couldn't handle.
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The +P or +P+ refers to chamber pressure NOT muzzle velocity--you cannot judge if a round is "too hot" by looking at the MV. There are number of good reasons (and I'd guess in the case of 147-grain +P+, flash suppressants) that chamber pressure may increase with little or no effect on MV. It is ver foolish to assume just because the MVs are the chamber pressure is close (and that is a recipe for a damaged weapon).
 
It is definitely so that certain manufacturers manage to get considerably more velocity out of the same gun (say 10%), while staying under the same pressure limit. So pressure does not equal velocity - obviously they are closely related, however.

The way that I view this is that the muzzle velocity is the sum of all the acceleration as the bullet moves from chamber to muzzle exit. Chamber pressure is not constant during this time.

I would guess that the critical issue would be the peak chamber pressure until the bullet has exited, not the integral of pressure * acceleration_time, which is essentially what is accelerating the bullet.

The way that this might be done is by controlling the dynamics of the burn process (essentially combustion rate over time) to avoid very high peak pressures, while maintaining good oomph all the way down the barrel.
 
So pressure does not equal velocity - obviously they are closely related, however.
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Not necessarily. Often maybe--but NOT necessarily! You cannot accurately generalize higher pressure to a corresponding equation in velocity. You most certainly CANNOT estimate chamber pressure by comparing velocity as vanfunk suggested.
 
Second that. The propellent burn rate has a major impact on chamber pressure. A fast burning powder, for instance, may produce a similar velocity to a slower one, but does it by having a higher peak pressure (more work in less time). The results appear the same, but the pressure curves are completely different.


After all, it is possible to blow up a gun with an UNDERcharge.
 
As far as the age of the gun, that is correct. I neglected to mention it because I thought it a matter of common sense (which I concede isn't always as common as it should be). .357 K-frames have been around for a long time. Should you shoot +p+ in a 100-year-old gun? Of course not. A good condition Model 10? I don't see why not (that designation has only been used for about 50 years). Hard on it? Maybe, but I advised not to shoot them regularly anyway. I doubt that it would be made if it was unsafe to use in that type of gun. I highly doubt that many police departments will carry a .357 revolver loaded with .38's for political correctness. The general public pays little attention to what a gun is loaded with, they'll only notice the words ".357 Magnum" stamped on the barrel.
 
You cannot accurately generalize higher pressure to a corresponding equation in velocity.
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Well, I said as much in my post, right? Are you just trying to be contrary? :p I will still stand by that - pressure does not equal velocity, but, they are closely related.

The only thing to consider (within the same gun) is the dynamics of the pressure application, rather than just a single instantaneous pressure number. But I already said that too. :rolleyes:

The bottom line is - the reason the bullet is traveling at said speed when it exits the muzzle is that is has had a (somewhat time varying) force applied differentially to it. That force, at any instant in time, is exactly proportional to the pressure behind it, which is essentially the same everywhere behind it, since it is exerted in all directions. That's the most important physics of the situation, and to argue that a second order effect (the dynamics which only modulate in time, rather than actually change the above fundamental relationship) somehow trumps that, in my opinion, puts the cart before the horse.
 
Webley-
Of course not. A good condition Model 10? I don't see why not (that designation has only been used for about 50 years).
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Actually, S&W did not rate the Model 10 of the 50s and 60s for +P (and advised against it).
I doubt that it would be made if it was unsafe to use in that type of gun.
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Unsafe--probably not (but again, if you are using the weapon for defence, it might prove to be unsafe indirectly). Not a good idea--probably so.
I highly doubt that many police departments will carry a .357 revolver loaded with .38's for political correctness.
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Actually, it was very common practice in the 60s and 70s. There were probably more Model 19s and 66s stoked with the FBI load (.38 Special 158-grain +P LSWCHP) than with .357 Magnums.

Caleb -

You're too heavy on theory and too light on practice. :)
 
I would stick with the cheaper and easier to find 158gr. +p stuff. Speer also has a good 135gr. +p load that performs pretty well in .38spl.
 
Caleb,

Re-read my post. Velocity is not proportional to pressure. It is proportional to pressure over time. A peak pressure may produce less velocity than a low pressure for a long period - which is an apt description of the difference between handgun and rifle propellants.
 
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