Getting ready to dive into 38 special, been doing rifle for a couple years, and 9mm and 380 for last few months. Just looking to hear some tips and ins an outs on 38 from the more knowledgeable out there. Any insight is greatly appreciated. All factory ammo shot is 130 gr fmjrn, seem to find only 125 grain, is that the closest option on bullets close to 130?
38 spcl help
- Thread starter grine_22
- Start date
About the only thing I tell new loaders of straight wall cases is to seat and crimp in two steps...
I find newbies to tend to crimp too hard if they do it in one step to begin with...This tends to give a bulge below the bullet and makes chambering difficult, if not impossible...
If the bulge is not really obvious, it often will make the person pull their hair out trying to figure out what they are doing wrong...
Here is an extreme example of what I am talking about...Not my pic:
http://s1111.photobucket.com/user/S...8-4E6D-9267-7CEBED2E733A_zps7bzmvxzr.jpg.html
I find newbies to tend to crimp too hard if they do it in one step to begin with...This tends to give a bulge below the bullet and makes chambering difficult, if not impossible...
If the bulge is not really obvious, it often will make the person pull their hair out trying to figure out what they are doing wrong...
Here is an extreme example of what I am talking about...Not my pic:
http://s1111.photobucket.com/user/S...8-4E6D-9267-7CEBED2E733A_zps7bzmvxzr.jpg.html
130 gr. FMJRN was originally developed for the Aluminum frame S&W Model 12's revolvers the USAF was issuing back in the 50's. The fix was this detuned round.
125 gr. especially JHP has been quite popular as a personal defense round in civilian and PD circles especially in a +P loading. You will find this weight much better represented than the 130 gr. since everyone made loads in that weight.
You will find that the three most common weights for the 38 are 158, 148, & 125 gr.
125 gr. especially JHP has been quite popular as a personal defense round in civilian and PD circles especially in a +P loading. You will find this weight much better represented than the 130 gr. since everyone made loads in that weight.
You will find that the three most common weights for the 38 are 158, 148, & 125 gr.
Cool. I load more 38 Special than any other.
38 Special is easier than the others you mentioned. So things should go fairly smooth. The roll crimp is the only thing that is clearly different. The amount of crimp depends on the loading and is a big subject in and of itself.
Sounds like you've been shooting Winchester "White Box" factory ammo. Good stuff. Excellent brass. I buy it by the case - for the brass.
Yeah pretty much. 125 is the "normal" weight. 130 is the "oddball." At least, it is these days.
We'd be happy to help. What will help us is if you point us in the direction you plan on going with your handloads.
What will the load(s) purpose be?.. Range ammo?.. Defense?.. Recoil practice?..
What gun will be shooting these? Specifically, the barrel length.
We need more "stuff" to chew on
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.38 Special should be easy if your well versed with rifle and semi-auto pistol rounds. 125 and 158 grain are the most common bullets and it'll be easier to find load data for those weights. Of course 125 and 130 are so close most of the load data would be overlapping for similarly constructed bullets.
FWIW I've never seated and crimped revolver loads in 2 steps. I could very easily as currently one of the 5 stations in my Hornady Lock N Load sits empty and I have extra dies but assuming the bullets have the correct cannelure, they are designed so that the roll crimp slips right into the groove as the bullet is being seated.
FWIW I've never seated and crimped revolver loads in 2 steps. I could very easily as currently one of the 5 stations in my Hornady Lock N Load sits empty and I have extra dies but assuming the bullets have the correct cannelure, they are designed so that the roll crimp slips right into the groove as the bullet is being seated.
ShootistPRS
New member
Speer has a 135 grain bullet suitable for the 38 special and it is designed to expand at those velocities. As was stated earlier the 158 grain LSWC is the old stand-by but with the newer lighter weight bullets you can get very good accuracy. The penetration is less than with the 158 grain bullets but you get some reasonable expansion that you don't get with the 158 grain bullets.
The 125 grain bullets I have tried don't give the same consistent results that I get with medium weight bullets. Your gun may be different so try a few of each until you find one you really like.
The 125 grain bullets I have tried don't give the same consistent results that I get with medium weight bullets. Your gun may be different so try a few of each until you find one you really like.
ShootistPRS
New member
FITAAC,
I've got ten years more experience loading and I too have never crimped in a separate die. As long as the cases are trimmed to the correct length and the die is set for that length it just works. Seat and crimp in one motion.
I've got ten years more experience loading and I too have never crimped in a separate die. As long as the cases are trimmed to the correct length and the die is set for that length it just works. Seat and crimp in one motion.
As Nick CS says, the intended use of your rounds is important. The 38 special is one of the finest arms for use of cast and swaged bullets for plinking, training and target work. It is easy to find an accurate load for a 148 gr hollow base wadcutter. It is easy to give wadcutters a light crimp over the top when you seat the bullet but it isn't necessary. I never crimp them at all. With light to moderate loads the bullets stay put.
On the 38 (and other straight wall cases) I use the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die as a final step.
Often when you size a case, and stuff in the bullet, you'll find the bullet is a tad bit bigger then the inside of the case. This sometimes leaves a ring on the case where the bottom of the bullet rest.
The Lee Carbide factory crimp has a carbide ring at the bottom of the die. The last thing that happens when reloading is pulling the bullet out of the crimping die. That carbide ring resizes everything allowing smooth loading into the cylinder.
Handy when fast loading with speedloaders and it eliminates the need to force the case into the cylinder with your thumb, instead the case falls in under its own weight.
This is critical on my Smith Model 52 Wad Cutter pistol.
Or sometimes, depending on the bullet, it wont go in at all. 38s, esp with lead bullets need to be a bit larger then .357. Most are .358, I like mine sized to .360. Accuracy seems a bit better with the over size bullets.
The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die makes everything as smooth as glass. They just make all straight wall cases better.
Often when you size a case, and stuff in the bullet, you'll find the bullet is a tad bit bigger then the inside of the case. This sometimes leaves a ring on the case where the bottom of the bullet rest.
The Lee Carbide factory crimp has a carbide ring at the bottom of the die. The last thing that happens when reloading is pulling the bullet out of the crimping die. That carbide ring resizes everything allowing smooth loading into the cylinder.
Handy when fast loading with speedloaders and it eliminates the need to force the case into the cylinder with your thumb, instead the case falls in under its own weight.
This is critical on my Smith Model 52 Wad Cutter pistol.
Or sometimes, depending on the bullet, it wont go in at all. 38s, esp with lead bullets need to be a bit larger then .357. Most are .358, I like mine sized to .360. Accuracy seems a bit better with the over size bullets.
The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die makes everything as smooth as glass. They just make all straight wall cases better.
I find this to be reasonable advice, for those JUST BEGINNING reloading. Making it two steps helps the beginner a bit, and reduces the odds of damaging/destroying a round due to wrong die adjustment.
Once the loader has a bit of experience adjust their dies, and getting a feel for what is right (and what isn't!) then this,
Is absolutely true. Provided the brass you're loading is the same length as the test round. I've been loading .38 Special (and many others) since the mid 70s, and I always seat & roll crimp in one step.
And if the brass you are loading is of varying lengths it doesn't matter if the seating and crimping is done in one step or two. If the brass length varies seating and crimping in 2 steps will not alleviate any problems and is just as likely to make the issue even worse rather than better.
If you can load 9mm and .380, loading .38 Special won't be a problem. Same steps throughout the process. Only difference is that rimless cases use a taper crimp only. While a rimmed case can use a roll crimp. Mind you, crimps are only necessary if you're loading hot loads or are shooting a lever action. A crimp is not required nor even wanted for target loads.
148 grain WC 's with 2.7ish of Bullseye has been the standard target load for more eons.
"...Once the test round is set..." That might be more than one and that doesn't matter. It's usually one case to set the dies and OAL up and one to test.
"...seem to find only 125 grain..." Close enough. 5 grains of bullet weight in handguns doesn't matter too much. 130 grains is kind of an odd weight for .38 Special anyway. Nothing but FMJ's in 130 grains on Midway.
"...if the brass you are loading is of varying lengths..." Something isn't right to start with.
148 grain WC 's with 2.7ish of Bullseye has been the standard target load for more eons.
"...Once the test round is set..." That might be more than one and that doesn't matter. It's usually one case to set the dies and OAL up and one to test.
"...seem to find only 125 grain..." Close enough. 5 grains of bullet weight in handguns doesn't matter too much. 130 grains is kind of an odd weight for .38 Special anyway. Nothing but FMJ's in 130 grains on Midway.
"...if the brass you are loading is of varying lengths..." Something isn't right to start with.
Actually, doing it in two steps can make a difference, but it doesn't eliminate the need to load each round individually adjusting the dies for each different length.
There's a lot of different little tricks, if for some reason you can't trim your brass to uniform length. Sorting the brass by length, and setting the die for the longest length, then adjusting as needed for shorter cases will work, without destroying any components in the process, if care is taken.
Its very labor intensive, but it can be done. Trimming seems like a lot of work, but in the long run its actually labor saving.
Crunchy Frog
New member
I've been hand loading pistol ammo since 1980; I have since taken up rifle and shotgun but probably 75% of what I have loaded is good old .38 Special. Even without getting into .357 Magnum loads this is a very versatile cartridge with tons of suitable bullets and powders from which to choose. You can pick up once fired range brass pretty reasonably and it lasts through many, many loadings. The "standard" .38 Special bullet weight is 158 grains, with the 148 grain wadcutter the choice of competition shooters. The 125s gained popularity in .38 and .357 for police and defensive use since the lighter bullet can be pushed to higher velocities. I started shooting cowboy action about seven years ago; .38 Special is very popular in that game and shooters tend towards lighter bullets; most of what I load now for cowboy is a 105 grain bullet. In a steel revolver that is a very accurate load with little recoil.
Speaking for myself, I almost never seat and crimp in separate steps for revolver cartridges.
Speaking for myself, I almost never seat and crimp in separate steps for revolver cartridges.
SauerGrapes
New member
Doesn't matter, I seem to have learned something I didn't know. Evidently you guys trim your 38spl brass?It's been a week now.
I wonder if our OP is going to chime back in?
If so, I guess trimming 357mag brass should be more important.
Kinda....
because crimp is more important in the .357Mag.
The .38 Special sits right on the border between needing a crimp, and not. Standard velocity 158gr .38 Special (850fps approx.), fired from a "full size" (aka heavy, such as a S&W N frame) revolver, and assuming proper neck tension of the case on the bullet, don't need a crimp.
Same exact ammo, fired from a lighter gun usually needs some crimp to prevent bullets moving forward. A light crimp usually works fine.
The same load, with a light crimp, fired from the lightest guns might need more crimp to prevent crimp jump.
The same pattern applies to all what differs is the amount.
The heavier the load, the more recoil, the more the revolver cylinder acts like an inertia bullet puller. The lighter the gun, the more recoil, same effect.
So, at .357Mag recoil levels some crimp will be needed, even in the heaviest revolvers, and very light revolvers (like snub noses) may need a very heavy crimp.
Trimming is the preferred method of maintaining case length uniformity. Uniformity means you aren't needing to adjust your dies for each individual round, and one setting doesn't over or under crimp.
MEASURING is the first, and vital step. Take a look at the bullets you are going to use, note the size of the crimp groove or cannelure. Some are fairly narrow (most jacketed bullets) some cast slugs are much wider.
Measure your brass, find the difference between the longest and the shortest. IF that difference is small enough that the shortest case will still be crimped into the groove if you adjust your die using the longest case, it will work and you won't need to worry about trimming. (at that time).
And when I say it will work, I mean the case will be crimped in the right PLACE on the bullet, not that it will be the right amount of crimp for your specific combination of gun & load.
Crimping outside the groove, or when there's no groove is easily overdone, and that is a bad thing, it may distort the bullet, or buckle the case, even to the point of preventing chambering.
You CAN crimp lead bullets outside the groove, lead is soft, but there is a limit, you can go to far. Trial and error is the only way to get the "right" amount for your needs.
Trimming all your brass to the same length as your shortest cases means there's no worry about over or under length cases resulting in too much, or too little crimp, and once you adjust your die correctly for that length, and desired amount of crimp, you're set for all your brass.
Total case length in revolver rounds isn't as important as it is in other kinds of guns & ammo. As long as your brass isn't so long it hits the ledge at the front edge of the chamber, (and that is a significant amount above listed case length max dimensions) it will work fine.
In other words shorter than max or even shorter than "trim to" length cases work fine in revolvers. As long as the length of the brass is uniform for ease of reloading, its all good.
One note about batches of brass, it has been my experience that with pistol cases, some stretch different amounts and some even get shorter. If you check your brass and find that out of all of them you've got 2 or 3 significantly shorter than the rest, then its decision time. You can either trim everything down to the very shortest ones you have, and load them all uniformly, OR you can trim to the length of the shortest of the majority of your brass, and the very few shorter than that can either be tossed, or loaded as individuals, adjusting for their length.
Despite it being more than 45 years ago, for me, I can still remember the time when every case, every primer, every bullet was a precious and valuable thing, and a ruined case or primer was almost enough to justify tears. (ok, I was always that cheap
), Today, I'm well past that point (though still pretty cheap by most standards) but I can still remember it...Up to you what, and how you do it. What works for me, may not be worth it to you.
^^ Everything 44 AMP said. ^^
I'd like to add a little though . . .
I don't trim 38 Special cases. Never have. Suppose I never will. In 38 Special, I only roll crimp my +P hollow point loadings - which isn't many. And I've ever seen enough variance in 38 Spl cases to warrant trimming for a consistent roll crimp. All that said anyway, most of my 38 ammo gets a taper crimp.
357 Magnum is a different story. For starters, the cases seem to vary more in length. And all my 357 ammo (save for one plated bullet loading) get a roll crimp. Thus, I trim them. If they're <1.283" they're good to go. If they're >(or =) to 1.283", I trim them to 1.280".
I also trim 44 Mag, but not 44 Spl - for much the same reason.