.38 snub-lead or jacketed?

J

jlflegal

New member
Yesterday, I was trying out some different brands of ammo to find what is the most accurate. This is from a duffel bag rest at thirty feet. The gun is a stainless Model 60 mfg. date 1969, very little use by original owner. This is my carry gun so it's important I find the best.

FMJ accuracy was just awful, especially 130 gr. Winchester. The bullets were flying all over the place!

I then tried some Cavia (Venezuelan) lead nose 158 gr. and, WOW, what a difference, I'd say around two inch or less group.

Then some Windhester 125 gr., same miserable hits.

Then I tried CCI Blazer lead nose-excellent hits.

My model 15 shoots the Winchester 125 gr. just fine but prefers the Cavia. S&B and American Eagle FMJ's are also very accurate.
I didn't have any of those brands to try this time out.

Is it typical for a snub to be more accurate with lead bullets?
I have been carrying hydra shocks in it, thinking I should have hollow points, but took them out last night and loaded up with Cavia lead nose. After, all placement is more important, right?

Your thoughts, please.
 
Jiflegal...

I think your problem is this. Everyone always says that the .38 snub was designed with a 158gr bullet in mind. I don't think lead or jacketed has anything to do with it. If it were me, I'd keep experimenting with heavier, jacketed bullets until I found one that is accurate in your pistol. In our .38's, the Federal Nyclad 125gr hollow point has been very accurate. But it sounds like you'll have to find the answer for your mod. 60 by trial and error. I don't shoot lead any longer. I kinda got out of the habit after I bought a couple of Glocks. However, even in my revolvers, I like hollow point jacketed bullets. I'm not sure (someone here will know!), but I think there's a heavier Nyclad hollow point to be had. Good luck!

KR
 
RWK...

I sure didn't know that! Well, there you go. Try some of the round nose Nyclad, you'll probably get the accuracy you desire, plus there'll be no lead to foul the bore. Those Nyclad jackets are on pretty tightly. I tried cutting one off with my pocket knife one day at the range. It's tough stuff!

KR
 
For short barreled 38 Special....

I have the best results with 158 lead SWC (with or without hollowpoint) normal pressure loads.

The velocities involved don't require jacketed bullets. On the other hand, they won't hurt anything, either.

I prefer the 158 SWCHP as done by either Winchester or Federal. They are fairly stout in recoil.
If you want to plink with it, use 148 grain wadcutters.
 
99% of my subsonic pistol loads are lead.
They seal the bore better than jacketed, especially at lower prerssures.

Could be your barrel is on the larger side of spec. If this is the case the tight tolerance smaller jacketed slug bounces down the barrel, instead of sliding down it smoothly.
 
I carry the 158 grain +P LSWCHP's in mine.

The most accurate practice ammo for me are the 148 grain wadcutters and 158 grain SWC's.

None of the jacketed ammo that I have tried (110, 125, 130, and 132 grain) has been particularly accurate, except for some old Speer jacketed 148 grain wadcutters.
 
MK IV Series 80 wrote - -

"I carry the 158 grain +P LSWCHP's in mine. "

Same here, in all my .38s, and my familys' as well. This load made by Remington, Winchester, and, I've read, Federal, though I haven't seen the latter. It is a dead-soft lead bullet with generous hollow point and will truly expand even out of a 2" barrel. It is also quite accurate in the bargain. Not glamorous, but highly effective.

Also, well into the 70s, about the only .38 Spl loads commonly available were 148 gr. full wadcutters and 158 RNL, either standard velocity, or, rarely, the old .38/44 high speed. The "new" lightweight, high velocity JHP loads almost always shot low in the older guns.

Good luck to you - - -
Johnny
 
PROFESSIONAL (AMMO) OPINION

Methinks slugging your barrel might reveal a over-.357" bore.

Your lead loads fit, but your jacketed loads rattle.

So..........use 158g LSWC-HP. There! Solved!
 
Years ago I read a comparisson article of Colt and S&W revolvers. The result indicated that S&Ws shot lead bullets a little better and faster due to their deeper rifling grooves, and Colt's shot jacked bullets a little better than S&Ws due to shallower lands and grooves.
 
From what I have been reading, you can't get the velocity needed for reliable expansion of hollowpoints out of a two inch barrel revolver.

Use the hardcast 158gr SWC bullets in the snubs and save the +P SJHP loads for revolvers with a six inch barrel.

I think the heavy cast lead bullets will be better for penetration through bone and dense muscle than the light SJHP rounds.
 
Salt - -Partly correct, partly not - - -

Correct as to JACKETED bullets from short barrels. - - -

SOME reading is very educational; some is very MISinformative. Experimentation is quite revealing. The fact is that the 158 gr. LEAD SWCHP +P from Rem or Win WILL expand somewhat from a two-inch. And a result, it will NOT penetrate as deeply as a hard cast solid of same weight at same velocity. In years past, I've examined several of those bullets recovered, expanded, at autopsy. They had been fired from both two and four-inch barrels. This was at Dallas County Crime Lab, and the circumstances were very well documented.

You can shoot bullets into Duxaseal and compare one with another, but this can be misleading. Ballistic gelatin is clumsy to mix, calibrate and use, of course. You can line up gallon milk jugs and shoot into them. Best balance of convenience and economy is probably the Fackler water box.

There is a very good Fackler Box article by Robert M. Smith in FEB 2002 issue of S.W.A.T. magazine. It is possible to build one out of plywood, but Mr. Smith built his out of steel. Penetration of 3.5 inches of water is equal to one inch of properly calibrated Kind & Knox 250A ballistic gelatin.

S.W.A.T. magazine is fairly easy to find. Look at the very top of this screen and see the link, "Subscribe to S.W.A.T. magazine." And there's a TFL forum by the magazine name. Coincidentally, the new publisher of the magazine is our own Rich Lucibella.

Best regards and Happy New Year - -
Johnny
 
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