.38 S&W cartridge.

J

James E

Moderator
You don't hear much about the .38 S&W cartridge, usually has about a 145 to 148 grain bullet on commercial ammo that's sold.
Velocities probably around 700 to 800 being max, maybe a little less than that. How good of a defense round would it be? It being fired in 4" barrel revolver. I know the Brits were once into this cartridge especially during WW-2. But can't remember much about it in our history. The .38 special far outclassing it was once the cops favorite caliber

James
 
James,

In addition to the 158-grain loads you mentioned, the .38 Special is also generally found in 130-grain, which produces about 950 fps muzzle velocity and provides approximately 260 pounds of muzzle energy. Obviously, this is less potent than most semiautomatic rounds as well as the .38 Special's revolver-descendant, the .357 magnum.

This said, PLACEMENT is the most important variable for successful defense. A .38 Special round -- all the modern loads-types are available -- delivered with precision remains extremely lethal. I have read that more people are killed with .22s and .380s than with any other rounds; accordingly, the .38 Special is definitely deadly. Obviously, its one-shot-stopping-power does not equal many other handgun rounds. However, this lack of muzzle energy/velocity may offer advantages for some situations, such as undesirable "carry through" in certain dwellings.

To summarize the .38 Special is the fundamental defensive revolver round, proven by most LEOs throughout of the last century. Like all firearms/ammunition alternatives, it is a tool that should be intelligently tailored for the intended use.

Regards.
 
James is referring to the .38 S&W, not the .38 Special. It's a much shorter case, sort of like a .38 Spl cut back to the length of a 9mmP. The British army replaced their .455s with it in the Webley revolvers, firing a 200 gr round nose slug. I think that it was very popular in the US before WWII, even being used by some police depts, but it was superseded by the .38 Spl after the war. I'm guessing that it would be about as effective as standard pressure .38 special 158 grain LRN, which is to say not very. Expansion at those velocities would be extremely unlikely and temporary cavitation nil. Get the 200 grn slug if you can find it and hope it yaws.
 
The Brits discontinued use of the 200gr. b/c of its "wounding properties." Barbaric and "Damned Un-english." I think that the low velocity, soft composition and high weight may have made this more effective than we give it credit.

However, the .455 had all these qualities in spades, thus we can understand why the change to .38/200 was reviled by the Brits in the field. Can't imagine what pissant configuration they replaced the 200gr. bullet with, but it was probably the equal to .25ACP.
 
My wife owns a Colt .38 Police Positive (.38 S&W cartridge) that was the plainclothes carry gun of her NYPD uncle, years ago. I reload the .38 S&W case with 148-grain .38 wadcutter bullets seated long, with Unique powder, as suggested in the Speer Manual #9. Makes up into as neat and shootable (and effective) a lady's defense piece as most .380 autos. With my load it shoots to the sights, with low recoil and report.
If I ever run out of the short cases, decent ones can be made from Specials, although these will be .001" undersized at the web. I use a .38/.357 carbide die to resize the short case, and have never had any problems.

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
Thanks fellers on the 200 gr. cast lead bullet info. I gotta get me some of those man stoppers. Though I can't load them too hot they go into a small thin cylinder wall piece...a Colt Police positive, very small revolver...best keep the power level down as it is probably 75 years old. Thanks again for all the good information on this old cartridge.
 
You can still occasionally find .38 Colt Super Police rounds at gunshows.

This was nothing more than the .38 S&W loaded with a 200-gr. lead flatpoint bullet.

It was apparently this loading that the British looked at when they developed their .380/200 revolver round.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
I too have used the 38/357 dies to size the short cases, no problems. Did try the old round noses lead 200 on car door, acted just like the .38spec police load with same bullet. Screwed up the paint on the car. Cool tho, you could shoot glass coke bottles at fifty yards, knock em over without havin broken glass to pick up.

Sam.....my favorite 9mm is a 9X32
 
I thought the 200 gr load was a roundnose. The Brits in WWII went to a 178 gr jacketed pointy roundnose ball. This was pretty anemic as it was low pressure to begin with and the jacketed bullet increased the friction in the barrel so that some were VERY low velocity.

The secret to the 200 gr lead load was that it was unstable and relatively long. So when it tumbled in a man it tore a pretty good hole and for that reason was a good stopper. Had it penetrated point forward, it wouldn't have been any better than a 158 gr round nose.
 
AC,

.38 Colt Super Police was a flatpoint. Other manufacturers may have made roundnosed 200-gr. bullets.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
I was just thinking about this round today. Can it be fred from a 38 special or 357 revolver with no modifications or add-ons? It is just shorter, right?
 
"Senior"

Nope, won't chamber in a 38/357 unless the gun has very sloppy chambers <s>

The 38 S&W is .007" larger in diameter just ahead of the rim.

Also, the proper diameter of the bullet for S&W revolvers is .360 ( no experience with Colts )

I get very good accuracy out of my Smith "J" frame model by casting my own bullets in 200 grain and sizing them to .360

If one has a strong enough gun such as the old "Victory Model" Smith that was furnished to the Brits in WWII you can safely load them up and fizz them right along.

Jim

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Lay up some blackpowder and flints
The rest we can build, if need be
 
Will be ok in most .38spec or .357 mags, some wheel guns may be too tight chambered for it to go in. Case tis a thousanths bigger than the .38 family. I have seen it go both ways. Lotta fun at indoor range, mod 19 6", mix 38S+W, .38spec and fullhouse .357s. Bang, poop, BANG. etc. Oh well, sanity is a luxury I can't afford.

Sam
 
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