guitar1580
New member
Could someone please explain the technical difference between the .38 special and the .380 ... and also the +P designation? Thanks.
Josh P
Josh P
.38 questions
- Thread starter guitar1580
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I'm not sure of the technical difference, but they are definitely very different...
The .38 special is a round designed for use in a revolver. The +p .38 just indicates a "hotter" load of the same caliber.
The .380acp is used mainly in semi-auto handguns. It is basically a shortened version of a 9mm round.
I don't think they really have much in common, besides the numbers 3 and 8. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly to give you more specific info.
The .38 special is a round designed for use in a revolver. The +p .38 just indicates a "hotter" load of the same caliber.
The .380acp is used mainly in semi-auto handguns. It is basically a shortened version of a 9mm round.
I don't think they really have much in common, besides the numbers 3 and 8. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly to give you more specific info.
earlthegoat2
New member
38 Special: Rimmed for use in a revolver. Nominal bullet diameter of .357 inches. Normal bullet weight ranges from 110-180 grains. +P literally means increased pressure in the chamber. Means the bullet will go faster and thus carry more kinetic energy with it.
380 ACP: Rimless for primary use in an automatic. Nominal bullet diameter of .355 inches. Normal bullet weight ranges of 80-105 grains. Is the same diameter as the 9mm Luger round with a shorter case and a lighter bullet.
380 ACP: Rimless for primary use in an automatic. Nominal bullet diameter of .355 inches. Normal bullet weight ranges of 80-105 grains. Is the same diameter as the 9mm Luger round with a shorter case and a lighter bullet.
For me the big difference is concealability. The 38 Special +p 5 round revolver is a very reasurring gun for self protection, but is a bit bulky (even with a 2 inch barrel). The little 380 acp Ruger LCP packs a lesser punch but is so small and compact that it can be carried even when dressed for hot weather. Not that I carry, or even own a gun, but that's my thoughts on the differences.
bluetopper
New member
Have you ever looked at the two cases side by side?
A .380acp is also known as the 9mmx17 round and sometimes is called the 9mm Kurz, 9mm Browning, or 9mm short (as opposed to the 9mmx18 Makarov, or the 9mmx19 Luger/Parabellum round). It is a rimless round for auto-loader feeding.
.38spl is a rimmed cartridge, primarily for use in revolvers.
+p refers to the powder loading and the chamber pressure generated. Reputable ammo manufacturers voluntarily follow the SAAMI ( http://www.saami.org/ ) guidelines for powder charges in ammo. SAAMI has guidelines for +p ammo, which is usually loaded (someone correct me if I'm off) to about +10% of a standard (SAAMI) charge loading.
You may also see rounds marked +p+, but most gun makers will discourage their use. SAAMI has no such loading designation, so you really don't know just what you are getting, and risk overloading your firearm.
.38spl is a rimmed cartridge, primarily for use in revolvers.
+p refers to the powder loading and the chamber pressure generated. Reputable ammo manufacturers voluntarily follow the SAAMI ( http://www.saami.org/ ) guidelines for powder charges in ammo. SAAMI has guidelines for +p ammo, which is usually loaded (someone correct me if I'm off) to about +10% of a standard (SAAMI) charge loading.
You may also see rounds marked +p+, but most gun makers will discourage their use. SAAMI has no such loading designation, so you really don't know just what you are getting, and risk overloading your firearm.
carguychris
New member
+1. FWIW the metric designations are more or less universally used in Europe, so you'll often see them on European-made ammo.
".380" is an essentially meaningless nonsense designation cooked up by Colt in the early 20th century to sell the newfangled caliber to American shooters who weren't familiar with the metric system. Colt wanted their 1908 Pocket models to compete with .38 Special revolvers (ironically including their own), so their marketing department used a number that sounded like ".38" so gun buyers would think it's comparable. The ".38" in .38 Special refers to the case diameter, not the caliber; it's a holdover from earlier metallic-cartridge conversion rounds for cap-and-ball blackpowder revolvers, which were also categorized by case diameter.
FWIW Colt did essentially the same thing with the .32ACP; it's known as the 7.65mm Browning in Europe. The intent behind the ".32" name was to sell guns to Americans familiar with the .32S&W, .32M&H/.32H&R, and .32 S&W Long/.32 Colt New Police. The actual caliber is, however, a lot closer to .32" (.309") than the .380ACP is to .38" (.355").
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guitar1580
New member
Wow thanks a million, folks. That is some excellent info. You guys are great!
JP
JP
The .38 Special is a straight-walled, rimmed revolver round. It was originally created by S&W by lengthening the .38 Long Colt case and loading to higher velocity. The first firearm to chamber this cartridge was the S&W Military & Police K-Frame Double Action revolver (this later became the Model 10 when S&W went to model numbers in the 1950's) in 1902. Originally designed for both smokeless and blackpowder loadings, the .38 Special has a very large case capacity (much more than is needed for the velocities attained with smokeless powder). While there have been a few semi-automatics chambered for the cartridge, it is far more preavalent in revolvers. Nearly every major revolver manufacturer has chambered a revolver in this caliber at one time or another and the the cartridge is very popular being a favorite among both police and civillians for decades. Bullet diameter for this cartridge ranges from .357-.359 inches and typical bullet weights range from 110grn to 158grn although lighter or heavier bullets may be encountered. The traditional loading for this caliber is a 158grn lead round nose bullet at 750-800fps from a 4" revolver barrel although a wide variety of bullet types, bullet weights, and velocities are widely available.
The .380 ACP (also known as 9mm Short, 9x17 Browning, 9mm Kurz, or 9mm Corto) is a straight-walled, rimless semi-automatic cartridge. The cartridge was introduced by Colt and first-chambered in the John Browning-designed Colt M1908 Pocket Automatic (not to be confused with the Colt M1908 Vest Pocket Automatic in .25 ACP). While there have been a few revolvers that could chamber this round (primarily those such as the Medusa which could fire a number of .38 caliber rounds), this cartridge is primarily found in small semi-automatics. Bullet diamter for this cartridge is .355 inches and typical bullet weight ranges from 88grn to 102grn although both lighter and heavier bullets may be encountered. The traditional loading in this caliber is a 95grn Full Metal Jacket round nose bullet at 950-1000fps from a 4" semi-automatic barrel though like the .38 Special there is a wide variety of ammunition available. This cartridge is popular in the United States in small concealment or backup type guns while in Europe is was popular for decades as both a Police and even Military handgun, though in the latter role it has been overshadowed in the last few decades by the 9x19 Parabellum cartridge. The .380 ACP is typically considered to be one of the most powerful cartridges suitable for use in an unlocked blowback semi-automatic (an action type most commonly encountered in small, concealment type guns), but in more recent years there have been a number of locked-breech .380's such as the Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP, and Sig P238 because a locked-breech allows a smaller and lighter gun than a blowback such as a Walther PPK, Sig P230, or Bersa Thunder can.
A note about bullet diamter, while both .38 Special and .380 ACP are approximately 35 caliber, they and many other 35 caliber rounds like 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Super Auto, and .357 Magnum are typically referred to as 38 Caliber. The reason of this has to do with measurement of heel-based and inside lubricated bullets. Metallic cartridges were originally loaded with heel-based bullets whose bearing surface was the same diameter as the outside of the case and had a smaller-diamter heel that fit inside the cartridge case. When the move was made to inside-lubricated bullets (same diameter from base to ogive) the cartridge case remained constant while the bearing surface of the bullet was reduced. Even though bullet diameter was reduced, the names of the cartridges were not. Hence a 44 caliber is actually .429" in diameter, a 32 caliber is actually .311, and a 38 caliber is actually .355 to .358.
With regards to +P ammunition, this is a designation recognized by SAAMI (then entity that governs manufacturing standards for most U.S. made ammunition) in .38 Special, 9x19 Parabellum, and .45 ACP. Officially, a +P designation means that a cartridge can be loaded up to 10% over its maximum standard pressure. +P+ ammunition and +P cartridges other than .38 Spl, 9mm, and .45 ACP are not officially recognized by SAAMI and thusly may be loaded any way the ammo-maker sees fit. CIP (the European counterpart to SAAMI) does not recognize +P or +P+ ammunition in any caliber though their maximum standard pressures are slightly higher in several calibers.
The .380 ACP (also known as 9mm Short, 9x17 Browning, 9mm Kurz, or 9mm Corto) is a straight-walled, rimless semi-automatic cartridge. The cartridge was introduced by Colt and first-chambered in the John Browning-designed Colt M1908 Pocket Automatic (not to be confused with the Colt M1908 Vest Pocket Automatic in .25 ACP). While there have been a few revolvers that could chamber this round (primarily those such as the Medusa which could fire a number of .38 caliber rounds), this cartridge is primarily found in small semi-automatics. Bullet diamter for this cartridge is .355 inches and typical bullet weight ranges from 88grn to 102grn although both lighter and heavier bullets may be encountered. The traditional loading in this caliber is a 95grn Full Metal Jacket round nose bullet at 950-1000fps from a 4" semi-automatic barrel though like the .38 Special there is a wide variety of ammunition available. This cartridge is popular in the United States in small concealment or backup type guns while in Europe is was popular for decades as both a Police and even Military handgun, though in the latter role it has been overshadowed in the last few decades by the 9x19 Parabellum cartridge. The .380 ACP is typically considered to be one of the most powerful cartridges suitable for use in an unlocked blowback semi-automatic (an action type most commonly encountered in small, concealment type guns), but in more recent years there have been a number of locked-breech .380's such as the Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP, and Sig P238 because a locked-breech allows a smaller and lighter gun than a blowback such as a Walther PPK, Sig P230, or Bersa Thunder can.
A note about bullet diamter, while both .38 Special and .380 ACP are approximately 35 caliber, they and many other 35 caliber rounds like 9x19 Parabellum, .38 Super Auto, and .357 Magnum are typically referred to as 38 Caliber. The reason of this has to do with measurement of heel-based and inside lubricated bullets. Metallic cartridges were originally loaded with heel-based bullets whose bearing surface was the same diameter as the outside of the case and had a smaller-diamter heel that fit inside the cartridge case. When the move was made to inside-lubricated bullets (same diameter from base to ogive) the cartridge case remained constant while the bearing surface of the bullet was reduced. Even though bullet diameter was reduced, the names of the cartridges were not. Hence a 44 caliber is actually .429" in diameter, a 32 caliber is actually .311, and a 38 caliber is actually .355 to .358.
With regards to +P ammunition, this is a designation recognized by SAAMI (then entity that governs manufacturing standards for most U.S. made ammunition) in .38 Special, 9x19 Parabellum, and .45 ACP. Officially, a +P designation means that a cartridge can be loaded up to 10% over its maximum standard pressure. +P+ ammunition and +P cartridges other than .38 Spl, 9mm, and .45 ACP are not officially recognized by SAAMI and thusly may be loaded any way the ammo-maker sees fit. CIP (the European counterpart to SAAMI) does not recognize +P or +P+ ammunition in any caliber though their maximum standard pressures are slightly higher in several calibers.