.38 questions

T

thedave

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What I have is an astra .38 4" barrel with an adjustable rear site. I got it through doing some trading, and for the forseeable future it's all i'm going ot have.

I have been told that this can shoot the +p rounds even though it doesn't say that anywhere on the gun. I have tried to find out more on the internet but there doesn't seem to be much beyond basic information on these revolvers. The gun is all steel and seems to be pretty heavy duty, would anybody know more about this?

The main reason I got the gun was to do plinking with and to carry with on my trail runs (i'm in a 4-wheeling club and some of the country is pretty far out there). I'm not too worried about bears, the most i'd expect to see is mountain lions or wolves. What would be the best ammunition to use for this? I can get 130 or 158 fmj and 158 grain lead roundnose locally, would these be considered adequate?

This is my first revolver and i'm having a blast with it, I'm just trying to learn how to use it more effectively. Thanks for the help
 
Astra .38 Special ?

Well partner, the company that manufactuered that firearm has long
since been out of business. Most of the Astra's that I've seen (4" bbl
.357's) are built like the U.S. Army's Abrams tank. Fit and finish have
been acceptable; but timing has left a lot to be desired. Most shave
lead when fired, sending very small pieces of lead into the shooter's
face.

In .38 Special, there is not a load I would recommend for mountain
lion country. I have a friend in the great state of Oregon, that shot
an angry cougar in his mid-section with hunting loads in his S&W
.357 magnum. The old cat absorbed six hits, and it still was able
to attack my friend. Finally, he dispatched the angry cougar with
a head shot fired from his .357 magnum.

Best Wishes,
 
I'll agree on the thing being built like a tank, however I have nto had any problems with the timing. I've actually been able to recover several spent bullets from firing into a sandbag and they are in perfect shape. And I understand that this gun is not ideal for what I want to do, however it is what I have and I want at least to be able to use it most effectively.
 
Astra had a good reputation, and during the late 1960's to the early '80's, MOST new revolvers I saw were out-of-time, including the best-known makes. It's better now, thank goodness. Then, Ruger had the best track record in this regard.

If your particular Astra is timed well and otherwise in good shape, I think it will do for your purpose. I assume that you have the Cadix or similar one on a pretty small frame? Their .357 was on more like a Smith & Wesson K-frame.

You could go to: www.knifeforums.com scroll down to the military knives forum, and post a question to the attention of Miguel in the Canary Islands. As a Spaniard, he may know if these were rated for Plus P. My guess is not, but ask. If Miguel doesn't know, he can ask his shooting buddies. He writes rather good English; certainly enough to communicate effectively.

Also, write to the gun Q&A people at the shooting magazines. Some of them may have inside knowledge. The US importer for Astra, Walther, etc. went out of business when the founder died some years ago.

If your gun will take it, I suggest the lead Plus P 158 grain HP's. A New York cop killed a polar bear in a zoo with one, said Massad Ayoob, who insisted to me that the bullet WAS an HP, although non-reg in NYCPD. The Remington 125 grain JHP .38 Special also has a good rep for penetration, and the Speer Gold Dot is loaded quite hot for a .38 Special. Their new 135 grain version is probably even better, once it reaches the marketplace.

Go to the zoo or natural history museum and STUDY cat anatomy. Hitting a cougar amidships won't stop him. Try for a heart shot, or ram the gun up under his jaw if he's on you, and pull the trigger. The forehead is sloped, and the bullet may glance off. And carry a good knife large enough to do some damage. I know of a Canadian guy who successfully knifed a cougar on Vancouver Island a couple of years ago. He was badly ripped up, but lived. Another man, South African game ranger Harry Wolhuter, even killed a lion with his knife. Heart stabs. No choice, of course, but he lived and the lion didn't.

Good luck.

Lone Star
 
Even in the deep woods, I would be more concerned about two legged predators than mountain lions. The 158 grn LSWCHP loads are a great choice, there's a company called Buffalo Bore that has a load that's even hotter than the regular +P with gas checked bullets, haven't heard of any test or street results yet.
 
Plus P

I suppose you have already tried plus p in the gun and nothing bad happened. Probably will not do much damage, if it is a full sized frame, and all steel. But heck, why push the envelope. Practice and plink with the standard grain 158's, and carry the plus p into the woods. But it was a good idea to try a few to watch for any malfunctions or anything funny occuring. I don't think there would be as much variation in impact point from a regular 158 to a plus p 158 hollowpoint, as compared to going to lighter bullets, like a 125, at any velocity. But the lead hollowpoints are pretty soft, and may not penetrate as deep on game as a jacketed bullet or a solid lead bullet. They do expand on bad guys, though.
 
Here is what it looks like
I have not tried any +p through the gun yet, I was waiting to see what the general consensus on this was.
As near as I can tell for home defense the best rounds are hollowpoints or wadcutters and for out in the country 158 gr. lead or fmj. Is that about right?
 

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As near as I can tell for home defense the best rounds are hollowpoints or wadcutters and for out in the country 158 gr. lead or fmj. Is that about right?

In my opinion, the two best loads for HD seem to be the 158 grain LSWCHP +Ps with the 135 Speer Gold Dots looking very good. For all around use (when critter defense is a concern) I would like the 158 LSWC - penetration is key with animals. I would avoid wadcutters as they can range from powderpuff loads suitable for only punching paper targets to (rarely) being fast enough and tough enough for shooting critters. They do make pretty good squirrel and rabbit loads though.

What a lot of us do is shoot a cylinder full or two of the +P loads in our non-plus P rated guns to determine POI/POA. Then we carry the +Ps for defense and use non +Ps for practice. The issue with the +P loads is accelerating wear on your firearm - not instantly damaging said firearm with one round or one box full. Years ago I put 600 rounds of +P 158 LSWCs through a Charter Arms Undercover as I had no idea about the issues. Did not adversely effect the revolver - probably (IMHO) was about the same as putting 1200 or so rounds of non-+P down range. I wouldn't do it again in one of my aluminum frame revolvers though.

One thing you haven't mentioned is accuracy. IMHO, the most important thing is having the ammo hit where the sights lay. Be aware that different loads even with the same weight bullet can vary considerably. If it came to shooting some super bullet that you have to hold off for as opposed to a plain jane bullet that was dead on, go with the one that's dead on.
 
Wadcutters are low-powered target rounds, they are far from the best defensive loads. Also, you've gotten some good advice here. Stay away from ANY roundnosed lead or FMJ bullet. It is a poor performer for what you're trying to do. Roundnosed bullets typically punch through an animal of the size you're talking about, but do the least amount of tissue damage.
Hollowpoints are best, semi-wadcutters would be next.
Denis
 
Factory +P isn't all that heavier than standard velocity .38 loads. You might go ahead and get some 158 grain lead swcs as they will probably hit fairly close to the standard loaded 158 grain bullets. If that proves to be the case, you will be able to practice with the standard loading.

Early .38 special loads from older handloads often tried to duplicate or exceed .38 Hi-Speed or .38-44 Loads and did operate at significantly higher pressures.
 
You have their medium frame gun, not the smaller Cadix. Probably okay with at least limited Plus P ammo, but check with Brownell's or another reliable gunsmithing house.

FN once offered a version of this gun under their name as the FN Barracuda.

Lone Star
 
For day to day shooting, cans, paper, the rock on the back 40 the semi-wadcutters (swc) will do just fine.

For serious work, get a box of Cor-Bon. Maybe load the first couple of rounds with the swc, and if you have a problem that continues to persist you have the next 4 rounds that will get the animals attention!

If you are attacked, (dog, lion, pig) then drop to your knee. Aim for the center of the chest and wait until the target is almost on top of you, then let loose...by dropping low you don't have to compensate for the animals moving towards you. Realize also that a practiced, steady rest from the knee into a point blank target is better than trying to stand and shoot at something which is cutting your reaction time. So practice using one knee as a steady rest, dropping into that combat position, and shooting at an 8X10" piece of paper at 10-15 feet!

Placement is the most important factor!
No magic bullets, just put the round where it does the most good, this lets a lot of warm blood out and a lot of cold air in!!!!
 
Hello. I'm new. This is the same exact Astra I purchased at the Indy Gun show two weeks ago for $160.
It is an Astra 960 .38 special, not a Cadix, and if officially was never imported to the U.S.
I found this information in a Spanish handguns book.
The photo in this thread is identical to mine.
 
Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it. I need to do a lot more practicing i'm having problems getting the sights lined up quickly from a draw but after I do get them lined up i've been able to hit out to hit pretty consistently out to 100+ feet. Claude I appreciate the advice, hopfully I won't have to use it though.

Indiandean, I was able to finda used pachmyr (sp?) grips for a ruger security six and with a little bit of trimming it fits pretty good on the astra. I was also able to trim the grip down on the left side so the spent cartridges can now drop out without hitting
 
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