.38 or .357
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madmo44mag
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357 loads in a snubby IMO are no fun to shoot.
To much recoil and not enough gun weight.
A +p 38 is about as hot as I would go in a snubby.
Follow up shots with mag loads is very poor.
To much recoil and not enough gun weight.
A +p 38 is about as hot as I would go in a snubby.
Follow up shots with mag loads is very poor.
2damnold4this
New member
In a steel K frame sized snubby, the recoil won't be nearly as bad as in an airweight J frame. The muzzle blast will be spectacular and may be enough to relieve your constipation.
April showers got you bound up?
IMO, the negatives (recoil, blast) outweigh the small gain in performance.
Full house .357 loads lose a lot in short barrels.
Loading 38's to +p levels will give nearly the same performance with less flash and bang- they are both handgun rounds, and the 100 f/sec you lose with the .hot 38's won't matter all that much .... not to mention that they eject easier in a .357 revolver (they are shorter).
I like .357 guns, but very seldom shoot .357 ammo in them. I've never seen any sense at all in shooting the more expensive .357 ammo (or even Plus + 38) to punch a hole in a piece of paper.
A few from time to stay familiar with the blast and recoil, but otherwise, I just shoot 38's in them.
A few from time to stay familiar with the blast and recoil, but otherwise, I just shoot 38's in them.
Waspinator
New member
I have a .357 Ruger SP101 snub that weighs 26 ounces empty and I do not enjoy shooting .357 magnums out of it at all. Out of a gun that big, the .357 are loud, produce a big flash and recoils heavily. Follow-up shots are all over the map when trying to shoot with any moderate speed. After 25 rounds or so, I'm done for the day.. not just done with .357... done for the day and I go home.
On the other hand, .38 special or .38 special +p are easily shot out of my gun with follow-up shots that pattern right where I'm shooting for. The noise is much less, as is the flash and recoil. I can shoot .38 specials all day long at the range without discomfort or fatigue.
Now, I've not had the opportunity to shoot a S&W 19 and the weight listed for the model 19 snub is 30.5 ounces. I do not know if the 4.5 ounces of extra weight would make a difference in how it handles .357 magnums, but I would tend to think that it would not.
Best thing to do is by a box of .38, a box of .38+P and a box of .357 magnums. Start off with the .38 specials and work your way up from there. You will know right away when/if you hit a threshold of what you can handle.
I mean, some people shoot .357 magnums out of those 17 ounce Ruger LCRs, but I personally think they are either the manliest men on the planet or just straight-up crazy, lol. Not this guy.
On the other hand, .38 special or .38 special +p are easily shot out of my gun with follow-up shots that pattern right where I'm shooting for. The noise is much less, as is the flash and recoil. I can shoot .38 specials all day long at the range without discomfort or fatigue.
Now, I've not had the opportunity to shoot a S&W 19 and the weight listed for the model 19 snub is 30.5 ounces. I do not know if the 4.5 ounces of extra weight would make a difference in how it handles .357 magnums, but I would tend to think that it would not.
Best thing to do is by a box of .38, a box of .38+P and a box of .357 magnums. Start off with the .38 specials and work your way up from there. You will know right away when/if you hit a threshold of what you can handle.
I mean, some people shoot .357 magnums out of those 17 ounce Ruger LCRs, but I personally think they are either the manliest men on the planet or just straight-up crazy, lol. Not this guy.
Deaf Smith
New member
By all means, use .38s in your K frame .357.
I do it all the time, even with my GP-100 3 inch 'Canadian' revolver and my S&W 28-2 4 inch N frame.
And in snubs, I particularly prefer .38s, or 'mid-range' .357s.
Deaf
I hope you get your constipating issues worked out.... certainly no fun being in such a bind over .38 vs. .357...
Shoot some of both, until you know just where your gun prints each, and how the difference in blast and recoil will affect YOU.
In tiny guns, .357 loads are for gravest extreme, and constant use is just foolish.
In a 4" model 19, .38s for recreation, .357 for serious business, at your discretion.
I'd go .38
Modern +P stuff works well enough for social work.
The .357 loses some performance out of a shorter barrel, but the added recoil, and flash are big detriments to effective shooting.
If you spend the time and training to overcome these drawbacks then go for it. I'll stick with a load I can shoot well.
Modern +P stuff works well enough for social work.
The .357 loses some performance out of a shorter barrel, but the added recoil, and flash are big detriments to effective shooting.
If you spend the time and training to overcome these drawbacks then go for it. I'll stick with a load I can shoot well.
I have owned both the SP101 and a Model 19 2.5", and I didn't find 357mag to be difficult to shoot at all. In fact, magnum ammo is about all I shot in either.
My current magnum is a 3" GP100, and magnum is a breeze in that revolver.
That, and getting 1350fps with Hornady CD 125gn.
My current magnum is a 3" GP100, and magnum is a breeze in that revolver.
That, and getting 1350fps with Hornady CD 125gn.
We live in a world of printed statistical figures, so much foot pounds of energy, so much velocity, etc. etc. For some reason the type of bullet is seldom discussed. There are some hollow based wad cutters that you can load upside down so the hollow base is forward and I am TOLD (always dangerous ) that the impact of these lead bullets at point blank range is devastating. A lead bullet (versus copper plated) also upsets easier so you can use more powder, obtain higher velocities, and still be within safe pressures.
My local library had the original edition of Phil Sharpe's reloading. Some son of a gun stole it. Sharpe was the person that developed the 357 magnum. To start, he simply used 38 special cases and set the bullet out farther so that the OAL was what is used with a 357 magnum. He used a S & W K frame 38 Special with heavy barrel and basically had a 357 Magnum in a gun rated for a 38 Spl.
I myself had such a revolver. I called S & W about whether there was any difference between a K frame stamped "38 spl." - with heavy barrel- and an exactly similar looking K frame stamped "357 Magnum".
Talk about the lawyers getting us all scared of our shadows. All kinds of upset people telling me no but not why. Finally I got a hold of a guy in the shop that said the heat treatment was different. Personally I doubt that but the problem is...you just can't take the chance so I don't load it up to 357 Magnum levels.
The long and short of all this is....I think the old 38 Spl. is under rated. It was standard issue to police departments for years and in shoot outs with the bad guys no one ever questioned a bad guy being shot and killed with a 38 spl. There were some stories of poor performance- that's true- but usually when the shot was off. A 357 magnum where the shot is "Off"- I'm not sure if it would be more effective.
So. I think you are fine with a 38 Spl. you can go up to a P+P with a lead bullet and have a very good load.
) that the impact of these lead bullets at point blank range is devastating. A lead bullet (versus copper plated) also upsets easier so you can use more powder, obtain higher velocities, and still be within safe pressures.My local library had the original edition of Phil Sharpe's reloading. Some son of a gun stole it. Sharpe was the person that developed the 357 magnum. To start, he simply used 38 special cases and set the bullet out farther so that the OAL was what is used with a 357 magnum. He used a S & W K frame 38 Special with heavy barrel and basically had a 357 Magnum in a gun rated for a 38 Spl.
I myself had such a revolver. I called S & W about whether there was any difference between a K frame stamped "38 spl." - with heavy barrel- and an exactly similar looking K frame stamped "357 Magnum".
Talk about the lawyers getting us all scared of our shadows. All kinds of upset people telling me no but not why. Finally I got a hold of a guy in the shop that said the heat treatment was different. Personally I doubt that but the problem is...you just can't take the chance so I don't load it up to 357 Magnum levels.
The long and short of all this is....I think the old 38 Spl. is under rated. It was standard issue to police departments for years and in shoot outs with the bad guys no one ever questioned a bad guy being shot and killed with a 38 spl. There were some stories of poor performance- that's true- but usually when the shot was off. A 357 magnum where the shot is "Off"- I'm not sure if it would be more effective.
So. I think you are fine with a 38 Spl. you can go up to a P+P with a lead bullet and have a very good load.
Hmmm, isn't this almost similar to saying that you've never seen any sense at all in shooting more expensive .38 at paper when you can punch a hole with .22LR?
There's a whole lot to the experience of shooting a handgun and part of it is the action that comes along with shooting a higher pressure cartridge. There may indeed not be any reason for you to ever wish to do that, but I can't imagine that you can't find "any sense" in it.
When I am doing slow fire small group shooting and target work on an indoor range, it's LONG been my experience, for whatever reason, that my Model 686 gives -me- a tighter group when shooting .357 Magnum loads than I can ever replicate with .38 Special. Obviously, Bullseye shooters running full target wadcutters would disagree, but I'm not lying about my experience.
There's plenty of sense and reason to shoot .357 Magnum, for sure.
These aren't your only two choices to contemplate.
To me, the object is to work within the confines of the short barrel. Basically, the short barrel necessitates generating pressure quickly. 38 Special rounds don't generate max pressure for your gun; so they can never reach the full potential of your gun. And full power 357 rounds have higher potential pressure, but they are most likely not well designed for your short barrel; hence, the muzzle blast and recoil. Basically, the propellant is too slow for the application.
To me, the best choice is ammunition designed for short barreled guns. Speer makes a 135g Gold Dot Hollow Point, Short Barrel - that's a mouth full. They're called GDHP SB. Speer part# 23917. They use a fast, flash-suppressed propellant. And they're not loaded super hot. They're clearly more powerful than a 38+P, but not as powerful as other conventional defense round offerings.
Another (better) option is to load your own. But this is the Revolver section - not the Reloading section
So I'll leave it there.