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.38 Long and .38 Special
- Thread starter Doug.38PR
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
Thing is, if a cylinder will take a .38 Special wadcutter or Cowboy light load, it will take a +P+ Treasury load just as easily. Which an open top conversion is not strong enough for.
Sir William
New member
I don't understand. My 38 Long Colts will chamber 357 Magnums. I know that is not safe. Why won't a opentop 38 Long Colt conversion chamber 38/357s as the originals? I asked why there weren't 38 S&W (short) conversion cylinders. They (R&D) said 38 S&W (short) was obsolete. I thought 38 Long Colt was obsolete.
I e mailed R&D last night to ask why their website seemed to indicate that .38 specials were acceptable in open top cylinders (.38 Wadcutters and HP) but Midway said .38 special was too high pressure. I'll keep y'all posted on what they have to say about it. I dropped some LRN and Silvertip .38 specials in my open top to see if they would fit. They went all the way down, but the nose of the bullet is a little too long and sticks out a tad at the end of the cylinder making rotation impossible. On the other hand, I dropped some of my Hydrashok .38 specials in and they fit in like a glove and didn't stick out. I can see how wadcutters would work too because they have not nose to them to stick out. LRN I guess I could file down the nose to where it is flat (like on a .45 Colt Long).
But I just want to be sure I don't hurt the cylinder or gun using .38 specials.
I really don't know why it would hurt the gun because under ball and cap the gun the gun under normal load is as powerful as a .38 special. You can leave the wad out and really jam powder down in the chamber and squeeze the ball in and it will have a thunder clap like a magnum. I've done this a number of times using only one chamber due to the absense of a wad (didn't want all chambers chain firing). That being said, I don't know why a .38 special or even a .38+P round wouldn't work in a open top cylinder (unless the cylinder itself is of inferior construction....which the website seems to indicate that is is made of the best)
But I just want to be sure I don't hurt the cylinder or gun using .38 specials.
I really don't know why it would hurt the gun because under ball and cap the gun the gun under normal load is as powerful as a .38 special. You can leave the wad out and really jam powder down in the chamber and squeeze the ball in and it will have a thunder clap like a magnum. I've done this a number of times using only one chamber due to the absense of a wad (didn't want all chambers chain firing). That being said, I don't know why a .38 special or even a .38+P round wouldn't work in a open top cylinder (unless the cylinder itself is of inferior construction....which the website seems to indicate that is is made of the best)
A .38 spec. wadcutter will chamber in a .38 Long Colt physically, but the special can be loaded a lot hotter(+P) than an open top cap and ball conversion has any business handling (the only thing holding her together is the cylinder pin, not a frame). I think the problem you're seeing with conversion cylinders is length. The cylinder on a '51 navy is just not long enough for a big bullet to stick out of a .38 spec. case.
The .38 Long Colt is obsolete, but it's just the right size for the conversion. This makes an otherwise forgotten caliber usefull.
Oh, and do not use the sound of the bang as an indication of pressure, especially comparing a black powder cap and ball load with a smokeless cartridge load. They just don't burn the same way. Also keep in mind that there's enough room even in a .38 LC case to put enough of a powder like Bullseye to blow up a small .38 spec revolver. Be carefull.
The .38 Long Colt is obsolete, but it's just the right size for the conversion. This makes an otherwise forgotten caliber usefull.
Oh, and do not use the sound of the bang as an indication of pressure, especially comparing a black powder cap and ball load with a smokeless cartridge load. They just don't burn the same way. Also keep in mind that there's enough room even in a .38 LC case to put enough of a powder like Bullseye to blow up a small .38 spec revolver. Be carefull.
Smokeless powder produces much higher pressure, weight for weight, than black powder. Nuff sed. Further, the pressure curve for smokeless is sharper than for black powder; in other words, the blow is not only harder, but faster, and that is what blows up old guns.
Could those conversion cylinders be used with lightly loaded .38 Special? Sure, but if the maker says .38 Special is OK, people will stuff in the hottest load they can find and the gun won't take it.
.38 Long Colt was never loaded to a high pressure level and so by saying that the cylinder is OK for that round, they avoid the problem of hot .38 Specials.
The design of the gun itself is involved, too. In a percussion revolver, recoil drives the whole cylinder back, putting pressure on the center of the standing breech, where the frame is thickest. In a modern revolver, the case pushes back against the upper part of the breech, and the extra leverage trys to bend the breech back, straining the right angle at the lower rear of the cylinder window. That is compensated for by the top strap, which keeps the gun together.
But when you have a conversion cylinder in a Colt-type percussion gun, the strain on the breech is like that of a cartridge revolver, but without the top strap, so the gun is inherently weaker than a modern revolver. In addition, many percussion revolvers are made with brass frames, which are also weaker than steel frames.
In short, even if the conversion cylinder will take .38 Special, assume the makers know what they are doing, and do not use loads exceeding the pressures of the old .38 Colt.
Jim
Could those conversion cylinders be used with lightly loaded .38 Special? Sure, but if the maker says .38 Special is OK, people will stuff in the hottest load they can find and the gun won't take it.
.38 Long Colt was never loaded to a high pressure level and so by saying that the cylinder is OK for that round, they avoid the problem of hot .38 Specials.
The design of the gun itself is involved, too. In a percussion revolver, recoil drives the whole cylinder back, putting pressure on the center of the standing breech, where the frame is thickest. In a modern revolver, the case pushes back against the upper part of the breech, and the extra leverage trys to bend the breech back, straining the right angle at the lower rear of the cylinder window. That is compensated for by the top strap, which keeps the gun together.
But when you have a conversion cylinder in a Colt-type percussion gun, the strain on the breech is like that of a cartridge revolver, but without the top strap, so the gun is inherently weaker than a modern revolver. In addition, many percussion revolvers are made with brass frames, which are also weaker than steel frames.
In short, even if the conversion cylinder will take .38 Special, assume the makers know what they are doing, and do not use loads exceeding the pressures of the old .38 Colt.
Jim