38-357 dies feel like they are scrubbing

W

Wendyj

New member
I took my Lee carbide dies apart and cleaned with birch wood Casey gun scrubber and a mop. The resizing die and crimp die feel rough going in and out. The dies are spotless from visual inspection. My first batch of 300 federal ran smooth as butter. The mixed brass lot doesn't run so well. Any suggestions. I've never put anything in them but 158 grain Nosler Sportsman bullets. They also seem a little rougher seating bullets since I started cleaning with ss pin tumbler. All but the Federal cases show a slight bulge if I'm wording it correctly around the bullet inside the case. Not enough to not feed and shoot in my revolver but enough that it's visible. I'm OCD so I don't like seeing it. Opened the flare a tad bit more and don't see it as bad but I imagine I'm doing something wrong. This was all pre fired brass that I bought from a trader from Graybeard site. I've no idea of how many times shot.
 
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I think what you may be seeing is where the resizing die quits resizing. When they are new you see nice straight sides but the resizing die sizes them down smaller then the OD of the brass when it was made. Being a straight case the die can't compensate for the part of the head it can't reach because the base already hit the shell plate.
The die is designed to size the case to a specific dimension, being a straight case, so that the neck of the case will have the neck tension that will keep the bullets from moving around in the case from recoil.

Redding makes a two bushing die (that is $100.00+) that will size the neck with the highest bushing of the two and the lower bushing will size the case to a little larger diameter to get rid of the coke bottle look that a conventional die creates.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/233990/redding-dual-ring-carbide-sizer-die-357-magnum
This may be your only option
 
Any idea why the crimping die appears to be scrubbing since I cleaned it. Should I lube a few with some one shot. Don't want to ruin these but I will certainly consider the Redding sizing die. Really good reviews on it. Thanks
 
I've heard elsewhere that the stainless pins and water treatment get the cases so clean that they tend to drag when being resized. Perhaps this is the issue? Perhaps if one were to simply tumble the next batch in corn cob and try sizing them, one will be able to compare the feel of sizing cases cleaned by these two different methods. -I assume you are using the FCD which also has a carbide sizing ring in it, which may also be affected by the cleanliness of the cases.

As for the bulge at the bottom of the bullet, anymore when I buy straight wall die sets I get the RCBS due to the expander plug which both flares the case mouth and expands the cases a little bit deeper than the Lee flare die. The RCBS dies give a more aesthetically pleasing cartridge, IMO. Another plus is that I feel better about seating cast bullets using the RCBS dies.
 
Like Stubbicat said,
I've also read about people having resizing scratches after using SS pins.
I would try One Shot if you have it or some other kind of lube to see if it stops.
Dry polishing like Stubbicat suggested, in a vibratory tumbler would be a good experiment also.

Sounds like you dies are "picking up" meaning small pieces of brass are sticking to the rings and scratching the cases being resized.

Clean the dies like you are cleaning a copper fouled barrel and start over with lubricated cases.
 
Stupid question but tried to find answer but can't. After cleaning would a spray of Hornady One Shot through the dies help and if so should I spray and leave it or spray and mop again? I appreciate all the info so far. Was really confused after first 300 cases were perfect and rest have been workable but not so pleasing to the eyes. I'm probably just lucky they are in a revolver and a lever rifle. I've wanted to start for the 9 mm and 380 but don't think they would like the bulges. I'll try vibratory on next batch after I shoot some of these up. Right now everything has been ss pin cleaned.
 
Slight bulging in straight wall pistol cartridges from the bullet is normal, and means your resizing die is working. The bulge is even more noticeable with cast bullets that tend to be slightly larger. Pistol cartridges need case tension to hold the bullet just like the case neck in your rifle rounds. You will also see this in 9mm and .380 rounds. The only concern is that sometimes .380's don't like cats bullets sized at .356 for 9mm, and most are offered for .380 in .355 like jacketed bullets for both.
 
After cleaning would a spray of Hornady One Shot through the dies help and if so should I spray and leave it or spray and mop again?
Click to expand...

You can leave it in there but I've never had to spray my die. When you spray your brass with One Shot or any other kind of spray lube, lay them down in a cake pan or something and spray them, roll them around and spray them again, then leave them dry for about 10 minutes or more.

You don't want to get the lubricant inside the necks of the cases, it will hurt the neck tension of the bullet.
This leaves the solvent evaporate and the wax based lube will dry.

I spray all my straight cases with One Shot before I re-size them. I use a progressive and it helps take some of the torqueing out of the shell plate from the friction of the re-sizing die and helps my OAL stay more consistent.
 
I truly suspect your dies are to squeaky clean.

ALWAYS shake the Hornady One Shot lube prior to use.

Since your brass could be lubed with OneShot, ( Yes, some people lube even pistol brass ) leaving it in the die will hurt nothing.

Bottom line is, the One Shot will harm nothing. ( Just don't over do it. ).. and if you don't like it you can clean it back out.
 
The dry, clean metal on metal contact between the cases and dies after stainless pin cleaning results in "galling". This removes microscopic particles of brass from the cases and bonds them to the steel dies. Some lubricant is needed.

To solve this problem, I added a final step of immersing the cleaned and rinsed brass for a few minutes in a solution of 2 tablespoons of Armor All per gallon (no lemishine), drain without rinsing, and dry on a towel. This has eliminated the galling problem.

Armor All is available at Target and Walmart; about $5 for the large bottle. The diluted solution can be reused numerous times.
 
I had read a post when I first got mine of someone using armourall wash and wax instead of dawn and lemishine for same reason. Just happens I have a full bottle to experiment with anyway. Can't hurt.
 
Lee dies? I examined three sets of carbide dies with 50 power magnification, and found that every one of them was shoddy and pitted. the last polishing steps were skipped to make them cheaper. I examined RCBS, Lyman, Forster, and maybe another one that I have forgotten, ad every one of them was mirror smooth. my twenty dollar tungsten wedding ring under the same magnification is as smooth as a bead of mercury.

many People swear by lee, and trash every other brand, but simple facts as shown by testing with high power magnification will prove that any other brand will probably be better. This also applied to steel dies. the steel dies were not perfect on any of the brands, but the lee had reamer marks that shouldn't have been there.

I suspect that if those cartridges are examined you would find linear striations as the already roughened brass is forced through a die that isn't as smooth as it should be.
 
one of the reasons that you may find a bulge in 9 mm is that the cartridge, unlike .45 or revolver cartridges, is designed with a slight taper, and there is no way to create a slightly tapered carbide die. they use simple rings to push the entire case down to the same diameter. I had military brass once that actually developed belts, just like a magnum rifle. I chunked it into the recycle bin.

My .380 rcbs dies develop a number of bands. first, at the web. then at the bottom of the size die. then at the end of the expander plug, at the end of the bullet, and again at the crimp. they look funny, but if the brass is left tarnished, they're not visible at all.
 
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I use SS pins for wet cleaning but I resize and deprime the brass first. It never occurred to me to do it otherwise. The carbon/crud on the brass acts like a lube (so I read somewhere) and I've never had any issues with the dies.

I DO use the double ring sizer dies and am not a fan of Lee dies. I use Hornady and Redding mostly, and sprung for the micrometer adjustable crimp and seating dies. Yeah I know, $$, but it's a one time purchase.

YMMV obviously.

The bulge in the brass...I expect it, don't see it on every round, but everything feeds and runs...
 
I got some rcbs and Hornady dies for rifle but the Lee had really good reviews so I went that way. From my rifle dies it appears Lee crimp die may be only good one I have except 308 and 300 wsm which have been flawless.
 
I've not heard this about the Lee carbide dies until know but I'm also not doubting that you got a bad set.

I still think they are picking up brass but I would clean them out as I were cleaning out a copper fouled barrel and then try lubing them before I bought another resizing die.

If the Coke bottle shape bothers you a lot I would buy the Redding dual ring resizing die before buying any other kind. Get rid of all problems at once. '

I'm buying one for myself for Christmas this year because I am also OCD about my brass aslo. But you have to do what you can afford and it may not be in my future either. I have to wait and see because I want a cannulare cutter also for cutting cannulares on bullets for a special purpose. But if that problem goes away I will be spending $108.00 for that die.

That's the big problem with reloading, you have to pace yourself or you will go broke. I've been scrutinizing my reloading purchases for 40 years and have saved a lot of money by reloading because of it.

Be wise about what you buy.
 
Le38. Thanks for advice. I'm really ocd myself. Want them to look store bought. This is second issue with straight wall cases. 45-70 Winchester brass bulged a little on me but Remington brass looked like factory. The 357 done great with first 2-300 rounds of federal but off brand brass was bulging. I cleaned the 357 dies because I thought it might be trash in the dies. You are most likely right because I can see some really light scratch marks on the brass when it comes out of the resizing die now. Going to get some Hoppes and reclean all four and shoot a little one shot inside. I've got 5-600 rounds to shoot up so I'm out of brass for now. It only started doing this after using the blazer brass I had from the range. It was clean because I had ran it through ss pin tumbler. I am using Nosler Sportsman 158 grain bullets and Hornady so I know it isn't lead. Has to be some brass inside somewhere I'm not seeing.
 
simple facts as shown by testing with high power magnification will prove that any other brand will probably be better.
Click to expand...
At least on the three (3) sets of dies you examined. Not much of a sampling I'd say.

I've loaded with Lee dies and all the other major brands as well and find no difference in finishing on any of them. 28 different calibers to be exact. Lee progressive presses may leave a lot to be desired in my opinion, but their dies have been first rate .... need I say it again... in the examples I've used.

Wendy, you can spray a shot of lube up into the dies, or a quick spray across a pile of your brass, sitting on the bench...it'll lube the dies nicely. My take on cleaning to the nth degree is that it's not necessary whatsoever for hand gun loads.

If you are shooting autos at a concrete range or in the dirt, then a quick tumbler run with walnut hulls should get rid of the dirt and protect your dies. I you want them shiny bright, add a squirt of Nucar auto cleaner/waxer to your media plus a dryer sheet to remove the dirt and you're good to go. All this is done with the spent primers left in the case. Spend the time you save detailing your bike or car...much more worthwhile.

YMMV Rod
 
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Rod, have you bothered to do an in depth examination of your dies at high magnification?

Carbide comes in many, many grades. I am confident that when you clean your dies spotless you will see similar results.

Three dies spread out over many years and lots show that this problem isn't just a one time, one year, one caliber problem, it's an issue that spans decades and over those years, 100% of the Lee dies purchased were substandard.
 
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Well Brian....the results are what I'm after...if it takes "high magnification" to see any anomaly, in all probability it's not worth the effort. My dies (Lee and the rest) don't scratch the cases..nada...and that, brother, is the proof of the pudding. Some of them date to the early 70's.

We're talking about brass cartridge cases, subject to powder and primer residue and gosh knows what else, not iris surgery. Lee dies work fine for me as sizers, from .32 Long to .45 Colt, and I'm not losing any sleep about their "rough" machining. You trashed Lee dies on a sample basis of three (3), and that's what they call statistically insignificant. Rod
 
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