.357 Sig , .40, .45

A

Art708

New member
I should get some good discussion from this one. :D Which round do you think is best for stopping power in a CCW? I am leaning toward the .357 Sig or the .45 but don't know which side of the fence to jump on. Good thing I don't have unlimited funds or I'd need to build an armory in the back yard.
 
what you have is a toss up. The 357 SIG is a necked down 40 to give better velocity with smaller bullets, and because it is necked down, seems to feed a bit better. The 40 has a bit more power depending on the loading, and the 45 is pretty much a standard on which every other self loading pistol caliber is compared to. Quit worrying about which of these calibers is going to do the job for you and decide if you are going to reload for it or you're going to buy tailor made, and practice your assets off. None of these cartridges is going to make a kill where the other one wouldn't, assuming equally effective bullets.
 
what you have is a toss up.
Click to expand...

Amen to that, David!

Anyone of those rounds will be as effective as the other; the choice probably being made more in the platform than the caliber itself.
 
I'd feel comfortable with a well placed shot from any of them. Any advantages that one gives over the other are miniscule.
 
From "the bigger is better crowd"-

I would say the .45 ACP. With shot placement being
paramount, one direct hit to the vital's from a 230 grain
Hydra-Shok should put the perp down. It's big, and it's
slow; but all that is in it's favor. The high velocity 9 m/m's
and .357 Sig's, might zip right on through the perp with
out ever touching a vital organ? The .40 is believed to
be the best of both world's; however, the jury is still
out on this caliber.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
I own a 45ACP myself-it being an issue item when in the Army, but a good point as stated above-between the 4 choices, the launch platform is going to have more to do with getting to the right place than the caliber choice. I have never liked the Beretta 92/96 in my hands, while others stake their life on it and with good reason. However, my best friend's Beretta Cougar in shorty forty will let me write my name on the target at 15 yards. I'm a personal believer that a big bullet which for some reason doesn't expand is better than a small bullet which for some reason doesn't expand. I'm no expert but have heard all the arguements pro and con velocity and weight this that and the other. I'll leave that to those who know or at least think they do. I've seen rifle bullets which didn't expand travelling 2x what you could push a 357. Tells me that while we are getting a lot better at it, nothing is absolute.
 
get the 357 sig and a 40 s&w drop-in barsto barrel.the 40 and the 45acp are real close .like the 40 better because brass is dirt cheap.
 
At least as far as the 357 Sig and .40 S&W (and 9x19) go, they are peas in pod.
Posted by docgkr on tacticals forums.com

What does the .357 Sig offer which is not already available? Are we missing something?

We have not observed any better performance with the .357 Sig than with the better 9mm loads; the better .40 S&W loads appear to offer superior performance compared with the .357 Sig. Buford Boone at the FBI Academy and I have compared our respective test data on the .357 Sig--our results are nearly identical. The best .357 Sig load appears to be the 125gr Gold Dot JHP. In both the FBI testing and our assessment, it offers virtually IDENTICAL performance as the 9 mm 124 gr +P Speer Gold Dot JHP in both bare gelatin and through the various intermediate barriers. Likewise, the 9mm 147 gr Winchester Ranger Talon JHP offers similar terminal performance. The best that can be said of the .357 Sig is that it equals the 9mm in terminal performance, although at the price of less ammunition capacity along with greater recoil, muzzle flash, and wear on the weapon. Both the .40 S&W and .45 ACP make larger holes in the target and therefore have the potential to more rapidly incapacitate an aggressive adversary in a lethal force encounter. In addition, the greater mass of the .40 S&W and .45 ACP bullets offer an improved chance of defeating an intervening obstacle while still having enough penetration to reach the vital organs of an armed opponent. I fully agree with Mr. Boone when he writes that the .357 Sig is, “Not a great or lousy cartridge, just another choice.”
Click to expand...
 
No losers to eliminate from the choices given. Pick the caliber/load you can control the best and practice-practice-practice..


Rick
 
I like bigger bullets and I like faster bullets. However, I think that, given a choice between the two, I'd choose a bigger bullet...go .45. ;)


P.S. I noticed that this is my 454th post. Coincidence? Or is an oracle telling me to buy a Casull as my next big bore revolver? :confused:
 
JC,

My man, I knew if we kept at this long enough it would happen...I agree with the quote you provided in your last post;) . I know others will disagree with me, and it's not worth injuring potential friendships over, but from my perspective, like many a wise woman would say...BIGGER IS BETTER!!!:o


Hasta luego,
E
 
The 40 has a bit more power depending on the loading
END

Actually the 357 sig has a bit more energy than the 40 when the most powerfull rounds from each are compared. Thats comparing a Corbon 135 grain 40 sw at 1300 with 506 foot pounds compared to Corbons 357 sig with a 135 grain bullet at 1450 with 583 foorpounds. Energy is not the only factor however momentium can also play a role. I personally like the 357 sig over the 40 mostly due to its accuracy advantage. The 45 is next in line on my preferred list followed by the 40 sw with full power 165 grain loads that seem to marry good energy and momentium.

PAT
 
First I would like to quote a friend of mine and say that all handguns suck equally. What I mean by that is all will kill someone. Shot placement is the most critical.

Remember that .22 caliber handguns kill more people in the USA then all other calibers combined. Now according to the FBI what stops a person is a loss of blood pressure to the brain. The quickest method to do this is to make large wound tracks. Penetration is important as well as the size of the projectile.

Personaly for me I want more then 7, 8, or 9 rounds before having to reload. That drops .45 ACP out of the running unless you want to carry a really monster of a gun around with you. I want more penatration then most 9mm rounds... That leaves the .357SIG and .40S&W rounds. I happen to like the faster round of the .357SIG versus the .40

So I bought a SIG P229 with both .40 & .357SIG bbls. I practice with the .40 because it's cheap, then before I quit I chew up a box of .357SIG

So my vote goes for the .357SIG round.

Greenmantis
 
I used to have the same question until one day I was out in the woods and I happend to have my G23 with me loaded with 165 gr Golden Saber HP.

I saw an old washing machine sitting way down the draw I knew there was no way a richochet would hit anyone and I had a good back stop so I took careful aim and fired at the machine.

I heard a bang and a thud almost simultaneously. I fired once more just to be sure it wasn't a fluke. Another thud.

I stepped off the distance. Right at 85 paces. I looked at the old washing machine. There were 2 holes in it. One right in the center, a second about 2 inches off to the right.

One bullet had punched through the outside casing (sheet metal), through the drum (Thicker sheet metal), through the agitator(aluminum), through the backside of the agitator and put a big dent into the drum on the other side of the machine.

The round had stayed pretty much together and had mushroomed out to 2 times its normal diameter. The second round had hit the steel post in the center of the washing machine and broke into 3 pieces and broke the center post into 2 pieces.

It was at that time that I decided that I was going to carry my G23 with 165 gr GS.

The moral of this story is.

Try all of them, when you find one that just seems to click. Stick with it and don't worry about it.

Hope this helps.

Brian
 
I'd have to agree with Erik (even though I carry a .40)

The main reason I'd put .45 first is because you will always find lots of choices of ammo at reasonable prices (simple supply/demand economics since there's probably more .45s then .357sigs and .40s&ws combined).

The biggest complaint I hear from the .357sig crowd is that its harder to find ammo and its usualy more expensive then .45 and .40.

But anyone who tells you that one or more of these calibers is unsuitable for self defense is either trying to sell you something or is an idiot (throw 9x19 in that list too).
 
Brian,

The next time I am attacked by one of those machines, angrily frothing soap at the laundrymat I'll keep your tests in mind. :p

All are excellent. The .45 has the longest successful track record so that's the one I personally go with. I'd feel just as well armed with the other two, however. In fact, I'd gladly let anyone here choose for me, just as long as I got to choose the gun and holster.
 
Greenmantis,

Where can I find reference of your declaration that .22 handguns kill more people in the US than all other calibers combined? Somehow this seems terribly exaggerated to me.

Had I ventured a guess I would have opined that the .38 Special would top the list, and even at that I would have not believed more than ALL OTHER CALIBERS COMBINED!!! My rationale for my guess is that up until I last certain of crime stats which was the mid-1990's, the .38 Special snub-nosed revolver was the most popular gun used by criminals. Additionally, fatal hunting accidents where the .22 caliber might be used (probably nonexistant with .22 handguns) are extremelty rare. Moreover, I just can't fathom that many accidental gun deaths attributed to .22 handguns. Finally, there are still many police agencies that issue .38 Special revolvers; however, as they decline in number I would expect to see a corresponding reduction in deaths attributable to that cartridge. But who knows, I might be wrong. Afterall it's been firmly established that I have been wrong at least once prior in my life ;) .


Take care,
E
 
Art,

To make a wise selection in terms of concealed handgun, one would have to have more than tangential knowledge of tactics. In absolute terms, the .45 ACP, based upon what I know to be true, is superior to the other two choices. However, if reloading is a concern, would it be better to have 13 .40 S&W or .357 Sig rounds available w/o having to reload or 8 .45 ACP rounds and having to reload? I am about to enter this identical quandry and I believe I'll go with 13 .40 S&W rounds. Reloading places one at a decided tactical disadvantage.

Try to get ahold of the FBI handgun test, as this will provide useful info aiding your decision. Your local police department might have a copy of this test in their library, and they might let you look at it. Go during normal business hours, and ask for the watch commander. You might want to call first. All law enforcement agencies of which I am aware go out of their way to help with legitimate requests of those they serve.

Best of luck,
E
 
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