.357 round that wont batter my M-19?

J

JRiggs

New member
Just wondered if anyone could recommend a good .357 round that will not batter my new 4 inch model 19 revolver. How are the Winchester 110 grain JHPs?
I want this weapon to last, so much so I am thinking of just using the .38 Spec. 158 gr. LSWHP +P. Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
You've made a very sound defense choice, although if you shoot much of that lead Plus P .38 ammo, you may have a job cleaning out your bore. Standard lead SWC's willl suffice for target work, tin cans, and small game up to roughly jackrabbit size.

Remington makes a medium-velocity .357 round with a 125-grain bullet. Got a brass jacket as I recall, but it seems to cause no problems. Gives about 1220 nominal muzzle velocity, and Marshall and Sanow claim 83% one-shot stops in their shooting studies. For defense on large animals or to shoot into cars I'd step up to a 158-grain bullet. I like Federal's Hydra-Shok, and several people on the forums and a Fed factory rep tell me it's a great deer round, within the range limits of the .357. Remington's 158 JHP is also good. Use softpoints if you need more penetration, as maybe with bears. If you just fire this ammo occasionally, to be sure you know how it feels and where it shoots, then carry it for business, wear won't be much of a factor.

Avoid the hot 125 and 110 grain magnum ammo. Eats up barrel throats and sometimes cracks them, cuts the top strap at the barrel juncture and generally wears the gun.

Keep in mind that the Combat Magnum (Models 19 and 66) was designed to be basically a .38 that could be used with .357's when use of that ammo was appropriate. It was never intended to be used full time with magnums in routine practice. I got this directly from Bill Jordan, whose concept the gun was. The gun lasts very well if not hotrodded all the time. Its handling qualities and ability to use .357 ammo when warranted make it a superb all-round revolver. Many see it as the ideal gun for someone who can or will have only one. If you want to fire many magnums, get a M686, an N-frame (Models 27 and 28) or a Ruger GP-100. Really, one should have both a primary .357 and a Combat Magnum for when convenience outweighs longterm endurance with full loads.

Lone Star
 
Had a Model 19 for a few years now, been shooting nothing but 38s through it, had real good luck with the 158 grain lazer cast bullets. Accurate, easy on the gun and fun to shoot. Figured if I want to shoot alot of mag loads would use my ruger BH or pick up a model 27.:cool:
 
If I owned a 19, I'd practice almost entirely in .38/.38+P of some sort.

For a defensive load...that would depend on barrel length. 4" or esp. 6", I'd be happy with Winchester or (better yet) Remington .38+P 158grain LSWC-HP - the old classic. Or maybe the Cor-Bon .38+P 125grain.

If it's a 2.5" or 3" gun, velocity is iffy, so the ProLoad 125grain "tactical lite" .357 starts to make sense, or the aforementioned Remington 125 mild which is the same basic concept. The ProLoad supposedly has it's JHP expansion set up for 2" barrels, the load was designed for 2" SP101s or the J-class .357 snubbies by S&W and Taurus. Should work fine out to 3" or so no sweat...from a 6", you might drive 'em too fast.
 
To avoid throat erosion you definitely want to stay away from full power 110 and 125 grain loads. About 300 rounds of Winchester's 110 gr JHP's in my model 19 and I can see some erosion around the forcing cone. I restrict my model 19 to a diet of handloads that do not exceed 38 +P. I would not hesitate to use Magnums in a defensive situation, but I would not make a habit of practicing with them very much.
 
I've long been a little unclear on the stress caused by 110 grain loads. Most 110 .357 loads are factory-rated at 1295 fps out of a 4 inch barrel, e.g. Winchester white box. I think some, like Remington are hotter than the Winchester, but still a 110 grainer at approx 1300 fps versus a 125 at over 1400 fps or a 158 at between 1150 and 1250 fps would *seem* to be easier on the gun. What is it? Why are the 1300 fps 110 loads hard on the guns? Is is where the pressure peaks? Temperature? Thanks for some enlightenment, guys.
 
The issue isn't how fast the round is moving at the end of the barrel. The issue is, the very light .357 rounds accellerate real quick in the first instants after ignition, and hit the forcing cone like a sledgehammer.

With heavier bullets, you also use a slower burn powder behind 'em...so the impact speed at the forcing cone isn't near as high. That in turn allows the slow-burn powder to "catch fire" and heat things up big while the round is still moving down the barrel but after the forcing cone.

That's why, out of a 6" barrel, you can get a 158 doing 1,550fps and not exceed peak pressure (in a strong gun like the S&W27/GP100/Blackhawk, whereas you can't get 125s to go past that to any significant degree without risking monster overpressure such as bulging primers, etc. "Peak raw energy" isn't telling the whole story, what matters just as much is WHEN the pressure hits, at what point during the bullet travel.
 
Jim,

Thanks for shedding some light on that. That makes sense and follows with some of what I have read. Slowly the bulb is getting brighter <g>. That then leads to the following question: Even though the 110 grain loads are often touted in the small-framed .357s, would it not follow that they would not be the best rounds regarding the long life of the smaller gun? Are the medium velocity 125s significantly better in that regard? Actually, I would like a medium velocity 158 that would do around 950-1000 fps from a short barrel.
 
now lets just hold our horses here...

For reasons unknown by me people think the M19 must be made out of bubble gum or somesuch. AIN'T TRUE!
My personal M19 4", bought in 1971, has just a bit less than 50,000 rounds through it and is still going strong. About 25,000 of those have been 357MAG cartridges and there wasn't a wimp load in the bunch. Many of the 38's were 38/44 handloads shooting 158gr bullets at nearly 1400fps.
The throat is rough in the gun; ain't hurt a thing. Shot the gasring loose at round 39,101; it was at S+W a bit over a week to be fixed, no charge.
YOUR NEW M19 WILL OUTLIVE YOU IN ALL PROBABILITY. GO SHOOT THE HELL OUT OF IT AND QUIT WORRYING ABOUT HOW LONG ITS GONNA LAST. IT DOESN'T MATTER AND IT AIN'T IMPORTANT. QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT!!!
Pardon me while I go get more caffiene and a dose of nicotine...
 
.357 In K-Frame S&W

I have a S&W M66 that I bought as a police trade-in about 1988. It showed some "holster wear" at the time, and looked like it was fired quite a bit but was mechanically very sound and well cared for. I've shot mainly 158 grain full .357 factory loads through it (~5000 rounds); bullets have been of various configurations. At this time it is not loose, nor have I noticed a problem with topstrap or forcing cone erosion. It's still accurate as it can be, my wife loves it (considers it hers) and it's our favorite house gun.

Kurt
 
Some good input above, JRiggs - - -

You don't say if you handload. If you do, or have a friend who'll help you out, you might want to roll your own mid-range ammo. Added benefit is that you can shoot your magnum dirt cheap.

I really like 158 gr. LSWC bullets with standard primers and 7.0 gr. Unique powder in magnum cases. (This load is NOT for .38 Spl cases--It is 'WAY overpressure in the smaller case and non-magnum revolvers.)

It gives a little over 1100 fps from my 4" Model 19. It is accurate and a good deal more powerful than .38+P. It shoots near enough to same point of aim as my favorite 158 hunting handload (with Hornady XTP-HP and 2400 powder) and the Remington 158 JHP factory load.

Best of luck--
Johnny
 
Thanks for all the input guys. I think I'll stick with .38 Special for practice, .38 Spec. LSWCHP +P for serious use.
To be honest, I really do not enjoy shooting .357, but why not have the option? Maybe I'll throw a few down range now and then.
 
Obviously, light loads will affect a gun less than full power loads. But I agree with Terry that the "battering" of the Model 19 has been greatly exaggerated. While I have maybe half that 25k rounds of .357 through mine, it shows no sign of loosening, or of the forcing cone going to pieces, or of severe gas cutting of the top strap. I do prefer to practice with .38 Special, but that is to protect me, not the gun. I always fire some .357 at each range session, just so I don't forget what it feels like.

Jim
 
Laz: the "Tactical lite" 125grain .357s would indeed be less stressful on both you and the gun than the hottest 110grain .357s.

In a 2.5" barrel, those are what I'd go with. Probably the ProLoad variant.

TERRY MURBACH: why is it you do not have a .38+P load specifically rated and tested in 2" tubes, with published velocity from a 2"? Why do we have to sit around and friggin' guess as to what'll still expand at the reduced velocity?

With the massive number of 2" barrel .38s out there, such a thing would be a Godsend. Federal *claimed* to have an answer with the 110 Personal Defense, supposedly tuned for snubbies, but actual tested performance from 2" guns was pathetic.
 
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