.357 Magnum SNS 158grn SWC info.

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Kwik2010

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I'm very green to reloading ccast lead so bear with me. I acquired a box of sns semi wad cutters for my 357. The data on their website states that they can be run up to 1500fps out of a revolver with their coating and they have a Brinnell hardness of 16 to 17. I can't find much in any of my manuals in terms of loads that could accompliah this with lead load data(Hornady 7th Edition and speer #14). I'm going to load some up over some unique powder for plinking but was curious where I could find info for a fairly hot load for trail carry (GP100 4") using the same bullet. I have H110 and Unique in enough quantity that I'd like to stay with these powders if possible. Any ideas or information would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Ya I wasn't thinking when I wrote that originally. I should have known better than that. It's since been edited out but thank you. I'll look into that book.
 
Kwik2010,

Velocity ratings are misleading (and possibly mis-leading ;)). Velocity changes with barrel length even if the peak pressure stays the same. The peak pressure is what determines whether or not a bullet is distorted and how rapidly it is being accelerated in the rifling, a factor that determines whether or not it is stripped by the rifling. Saying you can drive a bullet up to "X" speed begs the question, with what barrel length? It isn't the speed that spoils the bullet; it's the peak pressure getting too high.

I recommend you get a copy of Lee's Modern Reloading, 2nd Edition. He walks you through the hardness levels needed to avoid distortion at different pressures.

Mind you, distortion isn't always a bad thing. F.W. Mann shot pure lead bullets molded to bore diameter and let black powder's rapid pressure rise upset them out into the rifling to obturate the bore. He got some good results this way, though you do need to be able to place the bullet in the rifling ahead of the powder charge to make it work. The other example commonly mentioned is that revolver barrels with a constriction where they screw into the revolver frame will often lead less and shoot better with a soft bullet because the pressure is able to upset it outward again after it passes through the constriction, whereas it is necessary to lap the constriction out to get hard cast bullets through the same revolver without gas cutting the bases, increasing leading and unbalancing the bullet. The soft let does require the bore surface to be smooth, though.

I'll also point out that because those bullets have been made in a standard mold, they still have lube grooves, and if you feel you need more velocity you can always add lube to them on top of the coating if you have a lubricator/sizer. If you don't, you can still coat them with Lee's Liquid Alox. Having a coating of the Liquid Alox may help protect the coating from hotter powders.
 
The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook , edition #4. Uncoated standard cast bullet data can be used for coated. The coating is just "paint" not a hard jacket or a thinner or softer plating.
Coated bullets are lead with a different type lubricant.
1500 fps loads out of a revolver are... exciting ? I don't load them that hot anymore but 2400 would be the powder for them.
The little 1 caliper 1 book manual has just about all the data taken from other manuals and all published in one handy book. The Lyman manual has a lot of other info on many other aspects of loading cast bullets and casting...great to have.
Get both and you will be all set .
Gary
 
I can't find much in any of my manuals in terms of loads that could accomplish this (1500 f/s) with lead load data
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Just because a bullet manufacturer says you can get to 1500 f/s doesn't mean you should :D

Aside from that, do you really need to go 1500 f/s?

Speer's lead data states "these are not to max velocity" or words to that effect. Their lead offerings are soft swaged lead and are generally not meant to be pushed real hard; so they cap their data at roughly 1000 f/s.

The subject of loading/shooting lead slugs is huge. Opinions and experiences abound. For me, I have a number of S&W 38 & 357 guns and I have always found shooting lead to be problematic in terms of barrel and cylinder throat leading. I've fire lapped all my revolvers (which definitely helped), but haven't slugged them (I don't see the point). In the past 34 years I've loaded and shot every bullet, powder, hardness, diameter combination one can imagine - and they all - all - lead the barrels and cylinder throats. Some more than others; but you'd think at some point, I'd be able to hit the right combination of minimal leading - and haven't. Lead leads - period. One of the worst btw, was the SNS 148gn coated DEWC - it'll lay down lead in my 38 gun from breech to muzzle in about 50 rounds.

I still shoot lead. And I actually like it. Lead is accurate. I just spend the back end of my shooting day with plated and/or jacketed and clean-up is then a breeze. I shoot quite a bit of lead in 38 Special, but gave up with 357 Mag. And 45 ACP has been wonderful. I have a Colt 1911 that leads next to nothing; and when it does, it scrubs right out. It's awesome.

I didn't mean to get off on a tangent. My embedded point is that everybody's experience with shooting lead slugs is their own. Mine obviously has left some to be desired. Other's will tell you glowing examples how they shoot their lead slugs to hyper-velocities with no leading whatsoever - hey, it's on the interweb - must be true.

It's okay to gather advice and information. But at the end of the day, you'll need to create your own experiences.

Good luck.
 
Well the bullets I purchased have what appears to be lube in them. There's a blue ring inside the groove. So I guess they are lubed and coated? Here's a link to the website.

http://www.snscasting.com/bullet-information/

I have no desire to reach 1500 fps with my GP100 becuase I'm sure they would not be much fun to practice with. But it seems they would be able to go faster than the 1000 fps that seems pretty standard load data wise. I was hoping to get somewhere between 1200 and 1300. I purchased the little book recommended to me and also ordered the Lyman boom mentioned earlier. I feel I need to sit down amd study this a little harder before getting too far along. Thank you all for the info. I'm gonna try the lighter loads for some experience and hold off on the more powerful ones for now.
 
SNS sells both wax lubed cast and coated. I do not see where they offer bullets with both treatments.
Surely you can look at your bullets and tell naked gray lead from the various colors of coating they offer.

Lyman shows the most loads with cast bullets. 1200 fps ought not to be hard, but you will have to find a suitable powder. H110 is a suitable high velocity powder. It is not a suitable reduced load powder.

The original .357 Magnum claimed 1510 fps with a lead bullet; but that was the particular Winchester/Sharpe pattern bullet out of an 8 3/4" barrel
 
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Well the bullets I purchased have what appears to be lube in them. There's a blue ring inside the groove. So I guess they are lubed and coated?
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If they have the blue ring, they are a bare lead alloy with a lubricant in the groove - they are not coated. I have used your actual bullet - the SNS 158 LSWC (non-coated) It's a great bullet. In 357 Mag, I got them to about 1150 f/s through my 4" Smith model 686, using HS-6 (a mild, cool burning propellant - excellent for lead). Past 1150, leading got atrocious. I later just reserved them for 38 Special - they shoot wonderful under 4.2 grains of W231.

I have no desire to reach 1500 fps with my GP100
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My inference. Apologies.

because I'm sure they would not be much fun to practice with.
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No. They'd certainly be a handful at 1500 :D

But it seems they would be able to go faster than the 1000 fps
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Yeah, that's not an unrealistic expectation at all.

I was hoping to get somewhere between 1200 and 1300.
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Might be a little ambitious from a leading standpoint, but you don't know until you've tried.
 
That clears some of it up. I have never seen a coated bullet so I wasn't sure if it was a clear coat type deal that may be all but invisible or if it was a glaringly obvious coating. So I apologize for that.

Nick,
Don't apologize to me. I didn't make my intentions very clear. No apology necessary. I was just clarifying.

I'll have to do some experimenting and maybe get some different powders. I figured I'd save some money by getting lead since I'm on a pretty tight budget. Spent alot of savings on an engagement ring recently. Guess I'll have to suck it up and work a little more overtime til I can get a little more experienced and figure out exactly what I need with lead.
 
I'll keep loading my jsp's with H110 and do some experimenting with lead and unique or whatever else I can get my hands on.
 
Nick,

You also mentioned that you shoot jacketed after lead. That helps with the cleaning afterward? It just helps scrape it out or what dya mean?
 
It just helps scrape it out or what dya mean?
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Basically, yeah. It cleans the barrel. It's generally considered to be not good practice.

But it's a practice I've been doing for over three decades. I've got about 20,000 rounds through my 4" 686 - I'll let you know when it stops shooting straight. ;)

For clarity: I tend to shoot maybe 30 -40 rounds of lead, followed by a cylinder or two of plated/jacketed. Repeat. The last 4 to half-dozen cylinders for the day are also plated/jacketed. So the way I do it, there is never a lot of build-up to begin with. This practice has saved me countless hours of barrel scrubbing.
 
Jim,

I was misreading that page. I assumed that "bullet information" page applied to all their bullets. I see now I grossly misunderstood.

I'll keep these bullets in the more acceptable load range and maybe some day get some gas checked bullets or something to run at faster velocities.
 
Kwik
It's been mentioned some above, but the data in the Hornady and speer manuals are for the swaged soft lead bullets they make.

Their data is not for your cast bullets.....neither Hornady or Speer make cast bullets.

When you get your Lyman's manual, look up the data for Lyman's mold number #358311.
It shows as a 160 grain bullets.....but it's good data for your 158 swc's

It has loads for your H110.

The One Book has data for the same mold, but it shows as 158 grain and the data is fairly different.

Personally I'm a 2400 fan....with 13 grains ...for cast 158 grain swc's.

I only use H110 in M1-30 Carbine. Hopefully others can help you out with a starting load ...3% or 10% reduction from max and using magnum primers

On the flip side, you could get Hornady's or Speer's swaged lead bullets and use their data for your Unique powder.
5 grains of Unique with swaged lead 158 grain swc's is a classic load.
I can't beat the small groups at 25 yards with any other load combination.

Have fun....
 
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Appreciate the insight Bill. I just finished loading up a few ranging from the minimum to the maximum from my Hornady book with Unique. I'm trying one slightly warmer load with the Unique that I found in a buddy's copy of The One Book(borrowing it in the mean time). I'm gonna try em out tomorrow after work if all goes as planned. I'm already anxious to get the Lyman manual.
 
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